Zaheer Khan vs Mike Procter

[Coronis]

Who was the better test bowler?


Interested to see how some vote.

 

[sayon basak]

I guess mike Procter would taste better that Zaheer Khan but who knows?

 

[shortpitched713]

I guess mike Procter would taste better that Zaheer Khan but who knows?

Ayo

 

[kyear2]

Procter was elite, as a bowler and all rounder cricketer.

He could have been the closest thing to Sobers. Showed up in all 3 aspects of the game .

 

[Migara]

Procter was elite, as a bowler and all rounder cricketer.

He could have been the closest thing to Sobers. Showed up in all 3 aspects of the game .

Don't think he was even the best all rounder from his country. Clive Rice has some amazing numbers. The closest (equal or little bit more) thing to Sobers is Imran, and Imran only. Proctor is not in the same class as Imran or Sobers.

 

[reyrey]

Don't think he was even the best all rounder from his country. Clive Rice has some amazing numbers. The closest (equal or little bit more) thing to Sobers is Imran, and Imran only. Proctor is not in the same class as Imran or Sobers.

Rice was a more consistent bat than Procter, but Procter had maybe more destructive and game changing runs. Bowling isn't really close, Procter is ahead by a lot.

Imran and Procter are very similar when it comes to what they bring batting and bowling wise. Both have a 3rd string, Imrans captaincy and Procters slip catching.

Procter could also bowl spin, so that 4 string package makes him kinda like a bowling Sobers. Imagine for a second having Sobers and Procter in the same team. The ultimate all-round combo package to cover all bases.

 

[trundler]

Procter simply looks better because he did not suffer the inevitable dip in secondary skill productivity every all rounder has to contend with when they make the step up to tests. Hadlee looked like the perfect all rounder in county cricket and Procter's test stats look like a bowling all rounder's.

 

[reyrey]

Procter simply looks better because he did not suffer the inevitable dip in secondary skill productivity every all rounder has to contend with when they make the step up to tests. Hadlee looked like the perfect all rounder in county cricket and Procter's test stats look like a bowling all rounder's.

He only played 7 Tests. If you're reaching a conclusion on his batting based on those 7 Tests then doing the same for his bowling would make him the best bowler ever.

 

[trundler]

He only played 7 Tests. If you're reaching a conclusion on his batting based on those 7 Tests then doing the same for his bowling would make him the best bowler ever.

Not really. Many bowlers have had better 7 test runs, even starting from their debut. I'm not saying his test record is entirely reflective of his batting ability. He looks like the unicorn of all rounders precisely because you can't read much into his test record. Every other all rounder in history is forced to focus more on his primary skill upon stepping up to test cricket, at the expense of the secondary skill. Procter most likely would not buck this trend since his all round stats are not on a different level to the other great all rounders in non test FC matches. Both Imran and Hadlee averaged ~37 with the bat in county championship and Hadlee was on a different level to anyone else as a bowler on top of that. Merely justifying his grouping with that lot in test cricket wouldn't been the fulfilment of Procter's talent.

 

[reyrey]

Not really. Many bowlers have had better 7 test runs, even starting from their debut. I'm not saying his test record is entirely reflective of his batting ability. He looks like the unicorn of all rounders precisely because you can't read much into his test record. Every other all rounder in history is forced to focus more on his primary skill upon stepping up to test cricket, at the expense of the secondary skill. Procter most likely would not buck this trend since his all round stats are not on a different level to the other great all rounders in non test FC matches. Both Imran and Hadlee averaged ~37 with the bat in county championship and Hadlee was on a different level to anyone else as a bowler on top of that. Merely justifying his grouping with that lot in test cricket wouldn't been the fulfilment of Procter's talent.

Procter always said he didn't play for stats (still has great stats) and you just have to look at some of his performances to see that he was the type of player who would step up with both bat and ball when the team needed him most.

With regards to his batting, his average isn't boosted with not outs like Imrans and Hadlees, he also had a significantly better rate of scoring 100s than them (got 6 in a row once matching Bradmans record)

Your point about him having to focus more on one skill in Test cricket might be true, but that's more dependent on the teams needs. SA at the time were loaded with different types of all-rounders. He probably ends up a lower order bat/specialist bowler like Hadlee, but in most other international teams at the time he'd have batted higher.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Rice was a more consistent bat than Proctor, but Proctor had maybe more destructive and game changing runs. Bowling isn't really close, Proctor is ahead by a lot.

Imran and Proctor are very similar when it comes to what they bring batting and bowling wise. Both have a 3rd string, Imrans captaincy and Proctors slip catching.

Proctor could also bowl spin, so that 4 string package makes him kinda like a bowling Sobers. Imagine for a second having Sobers and Proctor in the same team. The ultimate all-round combo package to cover all bases.

Glenn Phillips is today's equivalent

 

[trundler]

Proctor always said he didn't play for stats (still has great stats) and you just have to look at some of his performances to see that he was the type of player who would step up with both bat and ball when the team needed him most.

With regards to his batting, his average isn't boosted with not outs like Imrans and Hadlees, he also had a significantly better rate of scoring 100s than them (got 6 in a row once matching Bradmans record)

Your point about him having to focus more on one skill in Test cricket might be true, but that's more dependent on the teams needs. SA at the time were loaded with different types of all-rounders. He probably ends up a lower order bat like Hadlee, but in most other international teams at the time he'd have batted higher.

Hadlee averaged in the low teens in the CC though. As an overall package he was arguably better in non test FC matches. I don't think Imran played much CC during his pomp. Imran's CC only batting stats were pretty much the same as Botham's IIRC so you're marking him down for his test batting and comparing it to Procter's FC feats so of course Procter looks like he comes out on top. Hadlee was doing the double for fun in the 80s in the CC. so he's not exactly lacking in the all round performance department when it comes to FC cricket. Stepping up with bat and ball together is again closely tied to my point about all rounders being forced to specialise somewhat in tests. It's not just about the role they have to play but the skill level required to excel at the top level. All rounders end up being forced to put more into their stronger suit to maintain it at a world class level lest they become a no rounder jack of all trades. It has as much to do with the demands of international cricket as it does with team composition, if not more. Kohli was an all rounder at U19 level. The higher up you go, the more difficult it is to keep that perfect balance between bat and ball and there's a reason there are 0 all rounders in tests like Procter in FC (where he is elite but not unparalleled).

 

[reyrey]

Hadlee averaged in the low teens in the CC though. As an overall package he was arguably better in non test FC matches. I don't think Imran played much CC during his pomp. Imran's CC only batting stats were pretty much the same as Botham's IIRC so you're marking him down for his test batting and comparing it to Procter's FC feats so of course Procter looks like he comes out on top. Hadlee was doing the double for fun in the 80s in the CC. so he's not exactly lacking in the all round performance department when it comes to FC cricket. Stepping up with bat and ball together is again closely tied to my point about all rounders being forced to specialise somewhat in tests. It's not just about the role they have to play but the skill level required to excel at the top level. All rounders end up being forced to put more into their stronger suit to maintain it at a world class level lest they become a no rounder jack of all trades. It has as much to do with the demands of international cricket as it does with team composition, if not more. Kohli was an all rounder at U19 level. The higher up you go, the more difficult it is to keep that perfect balance between bat and ball and there's a reason there are 0 all rounders in tests like Procter in FC (where he is elite but not unparalleled).

Yes I agree the higher up you go the more it becomes a skill/talent issue. For example a medium pacer with great stats at first class level won't typically do well when stepping up to the next level because they lack pace. A batsmen who is a great hitter, but with a poor technique might do well at FC, but struggle in Tests etc.

Procter didn't have these skill/talent issues though. He had decent pace, a solid batting technique and even with his spin he could give it a good rip and get a lot turn. Most allrounders fail as true allrounders first not because of the demands of Test cricket, but because they don't have the skill/talent to succeed in both disciplines. Don't think this would have been the issue with Proctor for as long as his body held up, even if all he bowled was spin as he showed in WSC

There were no allrounders in Tests like Procter, but there weren't any others in FC either if you look at more than just numbers.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

16 matches ( tests, super tests, WSC )
Between 10 years

Greatest Cricketer in last 50 years

Bowler in the league of Hadlee or Imran
Better batsman than Kapil and Botham
Great fielder

Mike Procter

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes I agree the higher up you go the more it becomes a skill/talent issue. For example a medium pacer with great stats at first class level won't typically do well when stepping up to the next level because they lack pace. A batsmen who is a great hitter, but with a poor technique might do well at FC, but struggle in Tests etc.

Proctor didn't have these skill/talent issues though. He had decent pace, a solid batting technique and even with his spin he could give it a good rip and get a lot turn. Most allrounders fail as true allrounders first not because of the demands of Test cricket, but because they don't have the skill/talent to succeed in both disciplines. Don't think this would have been the issue with Proctor for as long as his body held up, even if all he bowled was spin as he showed in WSC

There were no allrounders in Tests like Proctor, but there weren't any others in FC either if you look at more than just numbers.

Do you think Procter was a better bat than Botham??

 

[reyrey]

Do you think Procter was a better bat than Botham??

At least as good as Botham. Better over longer

The problem with comparing anyone to Botham is his varying highs and lows in form. So which version do you compare? Peak Botham might have the edge on Procter.

 

[capt_Luffy]

At least as good as Botham. Better over longer

The problem with comparing anyone to Botham is his varying highs and lows in form. So which version do you compare? Peak Botham might have the edge on Proctor.

Tbf peak Botham was probably the best cricketer after Don.

 

[Coronis]

Fun Fact: Procter, Imran, Hadlee, Botham and Kapil only played together in one county season, 1981 (Procter’s last and Kapil’s first)

 

[ataraxia]

Fun Fact: Procter, Imran, Hadlee, Botham and Kapil only played together in one county season, 1981 (Procter’s last and Kapil’s first)

And Notts won with Hadlee.

 

[kyear2]

Tbf peak Botham was probably the best cricketer after Don.

Tbf peak Botham was probably the best cricketer after Don.

An argument can be made, it was just an abbreviated one though