Were dead rubber tests a real thing?

[Ali TT]

Interesting quote from Mark Taylor on dead rubber tests: "No matter how hard you try you can't help switching off a bit."

That might just be him though.

 

[h_hurricane]

Dean Jones used to play several good knocks in dead rubber matches. He was criticized for being below par when the series was alive. One of the reasons he was dropped early and had a premature end to his career.

 

[Burgey]

Maybe WI in Australia during the 1980s?

Yeah they did lose a few back then. Back then #SCGsospinny was a thing in one of those results, where TOTAB took 11 for the match. They also lost a dead rubberin Adealaide in88/89 when Dean Jones made a double.

Deano was actually a bit of a dead rubber King tbh. Why I didn't rate him as highly as many did. Made that double I just mentioned and a big ton in the Sydney Ashes test of 86/87 after we'd lost the series and he'd done SFA batting three for us.

 

[Burgey]

Dean Jones used to play several good knocks in dead rubber matches. He was criticized for being below par when the series was alive. One of the reasons he was dropped early and had a premature end to his career.

Snap. Hadn't read this before my post.

or maybe I just had you on ignore

 

[TheJediBrah]

That might just be him though.

It's not

 

[R!TTER]

even the WTC final.

It's hardly a final when the build up is so random & absolutely no standards when it comes to home/away series & of course the venue! The cycle should be ideally of 4 years & if we're fine with promotion relegation then a two tier system as well. As it stands now it's just a headless chicken being paraded as some sort of a "saviour" for tests

Realistically speaking only 2-3 teams will qualify for the finals right now, & the fact that it's held in just one place makes it even less relevant for the rest of the 9 test playing nations!

 

[subshakerz]

It's not

Yeah. Waugh was noted for being somewhat distracted in dead rubber tests late in his captaincy.

It kinda makes sense. Champ teams bring their best game when the situation demands it. Hard to play at the same level if nothing to fight for.

 

[Ali TT]

Yeah. Waugh was noted for being somewhat distracted in dead rubber tests late in his captaincy.

It kinda makes sense. Champ teams bring their best game when the situation demands it. Hard to play at the same level if nothing to fight for.

How does the invention of the WTC affect this? Does a dead rubber win today mean more than one in the past?

 

[Burgey]

Possibly, as I think each test has points attached to it which go towards your WTC ranking.

 

[The Brian Hardie Stance]

1984 more so than 1985/6.
It may look silly now, but we thought our batting would do OK in the latter series. Gower's post-1985 Ashes comment about the WI 'quaking' was definitely tongue-in-cheek, but we thought we were better placed than a 18 months previously. Gooch was back, Gower, Gatting and to some extent Robinson (although Broad would maybe have been a better pick for that tour) had done well in the summer of 1985 and Lamb did really well against WI in 1984. I think they took Willey too due to his previous record against them, and he wasn't available in 1984. In the end, it took one innings in the first test to completely blow away whatever confidence they might have had. Arguably the bigger difference was in the bowling as theirs was far better equipped to blow a side away on some interesting tracks.

I think '84 we at least had put ourselves in potential winning positions. Being able to declare at Lords' for instance and having them 70-6 at the Oval first innings. Obviously, neither match ended well!

We'd have possibly fared better had we been able to choose Gooch up top a year before he did actually return.

85-86 was even more carnage from memory. 10 innings and we only managed to get 200 or more on three occasions.

 

[ashley bach]

Ew yuck who the hell would want to test a dead rubber.

 

[wpdavid]

I think '84 we at least had put ourselves in potential winning positions. Being able to declare at Lords' for instance and having them 70-6 at the Oval first innings. Obviously, neither match ended well!
We'd have possibly fared better had we been able to choose Gooch up top a year before he did actually return.
85-86 was even more carnage from memory. 10 innings and we only managed to get 200 or more on three occasions.

Yeah, the results were slightly better in 1984, although I still think the England lineup in 1985/6 was stronger. The problem may have been that the WI attack was even more fearsome in the later series, always being able to call up four of Marshall, Garner, Patterson, Holding and Walsh. Whereas in 1984 Baptiste was the fourth seamer and, on occasion, Small or Davis was the third one. And I suspect that the pitches in the Caribbean suited the WI quicks more.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ew yuck who the hell would want to test a dead rubber.

Used ones work better

 

[ankitj]

Back when Aus for dominant under Taylor and Waugh, their lack of performance in dead rubber tests became an issue. Was this a real phenomenon or merely a matter of teams adapting late?

Also, should performances in those tests be given the same merit as those in live games?

There is a lot that rides on "dead rubbers". A team would put their best foot forward to get a 1-2 result rather than 0-2. Dead rubbers are not your equivalent of random bilateral ODI series where strongest XIs rarely play.

 

[subshakerz]

There is a lot that rides on "dead rubbers". A team would put their best foot forward to get a 1-2 result rather than 0-2. Dead rubbers are not your equivalent of random bilateral ODI series where strongest XIs rarely play.

I agree it matters for the losing team and the series winning side often lacks the edge to make the difference.

Taylor lost déad rubbers to Pak, WI, Eng twice and SA. Waugh to SA, Eng, WI, and another with England but captained by Gilly. Happened frequently enough to be a real issue.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I agree it matters for the losing team and the series winning side often lacks the edge to make the difference.

Taylor lost déad rubbers to Pak, WI, Eng twice and SA. Waugh to SA, Eng, WI, and another with England but captained by Gilly. Happened frequently enough to be a real issue.

was it though? The very nature of them being a dead rubber makes it not really an issue

 

[subshakerz]

was it though? The very nature of them being a dead rubber makes it not really an issue

I remember Waugh started his captaincy and there was talk of ending it and to be fair his first couple of years of captaincy it wasn't an issue.

 

[AndrewB]

iirc we did that twice against Australia; in 1993 and 1997. Not sure we ever did it against anyone else, but my memory isn't what it used to be. We also won a few dead rubber tests in Australia (although the series wasn't actually decided in two of those), which didn't seem much consolation at the time but was way preferable to what we've usually done since then.

2008 v South Africa (Pietersen's brief captaincy). Before that I think you have to go back to 1966 v West Indies - as in 2008, England had a new captain (Close); and before that was Jessop's match in 1902.
Also, Australia did it in 2015.

 

[AndrewB]

It's actually commoner in Ashes series in Australia:
England in 1891-2, 1950-1, 1974-5, 2002-3 (and also England won the 4th Test when 3-0 down in 1924-5)
Australia in 1903-4, 1928-9, 1986-7

 

[swede]

Well two reasons. I mean ideally, I’d always want a series result but logistically it feels like those 2-1/1-0 scorelines occur too much and with the scheduling it might be difficult to accomodate all of those. Secondly, its a bit about the entertainment value too. Going into the final game 1 down you have the excitement of 1 team trying to grab that win. I feel it occurs more in the already drawn series where you have hype heading into the last game which can turn into a total bore and let down where both teams can be aiming for a draw.

On the wrong type of pitch the game might last ten days. It wont happen. And depending on the pitch and circumstances, it can be a completly different game.

Adding one reserve day to the final game of a live series might be worth considering, though. Similar to WTC