Were dead rubber tests a real thing?

[subshakerz]

I think it's fine to rank performances in dead rubbers a little lower. If Lara's 153 or Laxman's 281 were made when the series was lost already, they'd rightly be rated a bit lower than they are. They're less meaningful games after all. But it would be unfair to dismiss them entirely.

Butchers 173* to me would either not have happened if it wasnt a dead rubber, or if it did it would celebrated like Botham's 149.

WI chasing a world record score in the dead rubber of 2003 against Australia would also be unlikely if it was a live test, and would have been treated much greater.

Even Lara likely wouldn't have made his 400* in the dead rubber test if winning was a greater priority.

 

[Molehill]

Well two reasons. I mean ideally, I’d always want a series result but logistically it feels like those 2-1/1-0 scorelines occur too much and with the scheduling it might be difficult to accomodate all of those. Secondly, its a bit about the entertainment value too. Going into the final game 1 down you have the excitement of 1 team trying to grab that win. I feel it occurs more in the already drawn series where you have hype heading into the last game which can turn into a total bore and let down where both teams can be aiming for a draw.

Why just the 5th Test? England would've won last year's Ashes if the 4th Test had been timeless.

 

[Molehill]

Butcher's knock at Headingley in 2001 springs to mind.

I think that is slightly different. I think Butcher's knock was outstanding and shouldn't be downgraded. What I would question was Gilchrist's declaration (I seem to remember he was stand in skipper), as he tried to create a result. But let's not think that McGrath/Warne/Gillespie/Lee went easy on Butch, they were trying to win (as the declaration proved).

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

How many final tests end in draws anyway

 

[Molehill]

How many final tests end in draws anyway

Take the Ashes for example, only twice in its history (as far as I can tell) has the series been tied going into the final Test and ended tied. Slightly bizarrely, they were two Aussie series on the trot in 62/63 and 65/66.

 

[subshakerz]

I think that is slightly different. I think Butcher's knock was outstanding and shouldn't be downgraded. What I would question was Gilchrist's declaration (I seem to remember he was stand in skipper), as he tried to create a result. But let's not think that McGrath/Warne/Gillespie/Lee went easy on Butch, they were trying to win (as the declaration proved).

Would Butcher have been able to play such a knock in a live test? I just have my doubts.

 

[subshakerz]

Are there teams other than Australia who have shown the dead rubber phenomenon?

I was thinking back to Aus vs SA 2008/9 back to back series and both teams lost dead rubber tests after securing the series.

I recall Kohli's team was desperate to win the last test of the 2018 SA series after losing it, but not sure if SA let the pedal off the gas.

 

[wpdavid]

Are there teams other than Australia who have shown the dead rubber phenomenon?

I suppose they've been in that position more often than most.

Maybe WI in Australia during the 1980s? They certainly didn't ease off against England though.

 

[Slifer]

I suppose they've been in that position more often than most.

Maybe WI in Australia during the 1980s? They certainly didn't ease off against England though.

Most certainly WI with Australia in the 80s. In 1984 and 88 they won the first 3 tests in a canter then played ordinary for the last two tests. Even in 1984 for example, the WI took literally all catches offered for the first 3 tests. Their first notable drop (if I recall) was Lloyd in the slips in the 4th test.

People always use Holland and Border as a testament to WI being vulnerable to spin. No, they played those bowlers just fine when the series were live but lost interest really after the series was already won.

 

[subshakerz]

I suppose they've been in that position more often than most.

Maybe WI in Australia during the 1980s? They certainly didn't ease off against England though.

I think Aus may have won one or two in the 80s like that.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Are there teams other than Australia who have shown the dead rubber phenomenon?

I was thinking back to Aus vs SA 2008/9 back to back series and both teams lost dead rubber tests after securing the series.

I recall Kohli's team was desperate to win the last test of the 2018 SA series after losing it, but not sure if SA let the pedal off the gas.

No sa actually prepared pretty spicey wicket to to make sure indian batting had no chance just that india showed extreme bravery and resilience to win the match

 

[subshakerz]

Most certainly WI with Australia in the 80s. In 1984 and 88 they won the first 3 tests in a canter then played ordinary for the last two tests. Even in 1984 for example, the WI took literally all catches offered for the first 3 tests. Their first notable drop (if I recall) was Lloyd in the slips in the 4th test.

People always use Holland and Border as a testament to WI being vulnerable to spin. No, they played those bowlers just fine when the series were live but lost interest really after the series was already won.

Thats really interesting. I think we underestimate the degree of effort it takes to do 5-0 whitewashes against decent teams. Its hard to sustain that level of excellence.

 

[subshakerz]

No sa actually prepared pretty spicey wicket to to make sure indian batting had no chance just that india showed extreme bravery and resilience to win the match

Yeah true. It was a tough wicket.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Yep, they had a real deflated feel about them what with half the guys from the winning side still nursing a alcohol and/or food-induced hangover. Looking sheepish after a milestone in such a game, especially if you belong to the team that's lost the series, is the only decent thing to do. Imagine Yashasvi Jaiswal doing his budget SRK celebration after a hundred in a pre-WTC dead rubber.

 

[Slifer]

Thats really interesting. I think we underestimate the degree of effort it takes to do 5-0 whitewashes against decent teams. Its hard to sustain that level of excellence.

Probably

 

[Molehill]

Thats really interesting. I think we underestimate the degree of effort it takes to do 5-0 whitewashes against decent teams. Its hard to sustain that level of excellence.

Even when England were truly desperate in the 90's, they'd generally somehow sneak a Test in Aus. I think it actually took Australia losing the 2005 Ashes (plus a few impending retirements) for them to properly get up for the 2007 whitewash (although England losing Vaughan and Tres didn't exactly help).

 

[subshakerz]

Even when England were truly desperate in the 90's, they'd generally somehow sneak a Test in Aus. I think it actually took Australia losing the 2005 Ashes (plus a few impending retirements) for them to properly get up for the 2007 whitewash (although England losing Vaughan and Tres didn't exactly help).

Steve Waugh as cap despite the hype and the team still had the dead rubber issue quite often.

England were still backwashed by WI in the 80s though those were some poor sides.

 

[wpdavid]

England were still backwashed by WI in the 80s though those were some poor sides.

1984 more so than 1985/6.
It may look silly now, but we thought our batting would do OK in the latter series. Gower's post-1985 Ashes comment about the WI 'quaking' was definitely tongue-in-cheek, but we thought we were better placed than a 18 months previously. Gooch was back, Gower, Gatting and to some extent Robinson (although Broad would maybe have been a better pick for that tour) had done well in the summer of 1985 and Lamb did really well against WI in 1984. I think they took Willey too due to his previous record against them, and he wasn't available in 1984. In the end, it took one innings in the first test to completely blow away whatever confidence they might have had. Arguably the bigger difference was in the bowling as theirs was far better equipped to blow a side away on some interesting tracks.

 

[Ali TT]

Would Butcher have been able to play such a knock in a live test? I just have my doubts.

Dunno, but I suspect if it had been a live match, eg some bizarre alternate reality in which England held the ashes but Australia were 2-0 up, then does Gilly declare? I doubt it.

 

[subshakerz]

Interesting quote from Mark Taylor on dead rubber tests: "No matter how hard you try you can't help switching off a bit."