Fred Trueman vs Waqar Younis

[shortpitched713]

Find it hard to believe any of them (except Thomson) we're as fast as Akhtar. They just don't look as quick and their actions lack the same level of explosiveness and follow through

Did you take a look at the Hall footage?

For me, it was absolutely astounding to look at him the first time, because his technique looks transported out of the modern express fast bowlers, just in black and white.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Find it hard to believe any of them (except Thomson) we're as fast as Akhtar. They just don't look as quick and their actions lack the same level of explosiveness and follow through

Imho, I found it hard to believe that the fastest bowler now is slower than someone who bowled 60 years ago.

 

[sayon basak]

I don't think videos that were definitely recorded at different fps are enough to draw any conclusion.

 

[sayon basak]

Find it hard to believe any of them (except Thomson) we're as fast as Akhtar. They just don't look as quick and their actions lack the same level of explosiveness and follow through

Aroldis Chapman

 

[capt_Luffy]

Comparing to Hall in this video, in my honest opinion the batsmen look more hurried, circumspect, and careful to Hall. Tyson certainly looks quick too, but this is just my opinion from the viewing.

Imo, tough to make such claims just on these short footages. It could very well we be comparing some of Hall's fastest to Tyson's normal ones, or Hall bowling to batsmen less skillful against raw pace. That's the reason I use that study as my go to point.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Did you take a look at the Hall footage?

For me, it was absolutely astounding to look at him the first time, because his technique looks transported out of the modern express fast bowlers, just in black and white.

No, don't get me wrong, bowlers like Hall looks pretty modern. Wasn't saying they're dinosaurs. As quick as Akhtar though (159-160kph)? I don't really buy it tbh.

Thomson looks terrifyingly rapid, had an action that put extraordinary strain on his arm and shoulder and gets insane carry to the keeper than makes it obvious he was express, so I can believe claims of him touching 100 mph (though 165 kph seems a stretch).

 

[sayon basak]

Thomson looks terrifyingly rapid, had an action that put extraordinary strain on his arm and shoulder and gets insane carry to the keeper than makes it obvious he was express, so I can believe claims of him touching 100 mph (though 165 kph seems a stretch).

He actually claims to have bowled 175 to 180 kmph.

 

[sayon basak]

Here's another piece of information about Tyson's pace from espn.

Harold Larwood was rated as possibly the fastest bowler of all time in a book "The Fast Men" by David Frith (Corgi Books, 1977, p114). It quotes a recorded speed of 96mph (154.5 kph), although it is not clear how this speed was obtained.

The same book says that both Frank Tyson and Brian Statham were timed at just under 90mph (144.8kph). Tyson himself said of this: "We were measured at the NZ Aeronautical College in Wellington in 1955. A metal plate was attached to a ball, which was then bowled through a sonic beam. It produced a whistle, which was measured and then the speed was worked out according to the distance covered and the length of the whistle. I was measured at 89mph and Statham at 87mph. We bowled in two or three sweaters, and I cannot vouch for the length of our run-ups."

Tyson just tried to bowled fast, but didn't have a very convincing follow through. Don't think he ever touched 150-155 mark.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Here's another piece of information about Tyson's pace from espn.

Harold Larwood was rated as possibly the fastest bowler of all time in a book "The Fast Men" by David Frith (Corgi Books, 1977, p114). It quotes a recorded speed of 96mph (154.5 kph), although it is not clear how this speed was obtained.

The same book says that both Frank Tyson and Brian Statham were timed at just under 90mph (144.8kph). Tyson himself said of this: "We were measured at the NZ Aeronautical College in Wellington in 1955. A metal plate was attached to a ball, which was then bowled through a sonic beam. It produced a whistle, which was measured and then the speed was worked out according to the distance covered and the length of the whistle. I was measured at 89mph and Statham at 87mph. We bowled in two or three sweaters, and I cannot vouch for the length of our run-ups."

Tyson just tried to bowled fast, but didn't have a very convincing follow through. Don't think he ever touched 150-155 mark.

Imo, it should also be noted that the run-up, sweaters and the ball used affected his bowling considerably; not to mention the fact that speed of a ball is measured when it leaves the bowlers' hands, and the speed gets reduced after hitting the ground. Here, the final speed was only measured.

 

[sayon basak]

Imo, it should also be noted that the run-up, sweaters and the ball used affected his bowling considerably; not to mention the fact that speed of a ball is measured when it leaves the bowlers' hands, and the speed gets reduced after hitting the ground. Here, the final speed was only measured.

Was only the final speed measured in the 75, 76 and 79 study? I've heard thommo mention that in a video.
He was recorded to bowl 160.45, 160.6 and 147.9 kmph respectively in those studies.
If that's the case, Thommo was bowling much faster than modern quicks like Akhtar.

 

[Coronis]

Did you take a look at the Hall footage?

For me, it was absolutely astounding to look at him the first time, because his technique looks transported out of the modern express fast bowlers, just in black and white.

Doesn’t count then.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Was only the final speed measured in the 75, 76 and 79 study? I've heard thommo mention that in a video.
He was recorded to bowl 160.45, 160.6 and 147.9 kmph respectively in those studies.
If that's the case, Thommo was bowling much faster than modern quicks like Akhtar.

I highly doubt it really. The 3rd speed sounds much more reasonable to me than him bowling faster than Akhtar.

 

[sayon basak]

I highly doubt it really. The 3rd speed sounds much more reasonable to me than him bowling faster than Akhtar.

I saw a video where thommo mentioned that after contact with the pitch, the bowl loses 15% of it's speed. Then if the speed after contact is 147.9 kmph, then the speed right out of the hand would be 147.9*100/85 = 174 kmph. I guess this is where he got the 175 kmph speed that he claims

 

[capt_Luffy]

I saw a video where thommo mentioned that after contact with the pitch, the bowl loses 15% of it's speed. Then if the speed after contact is 147.9 kmph, then the speed right out of the hand would be 147.9*100/85 = 174 kmph. I guess this is where he got the 175 kmph speed that he claims

I doubt most of his claims really. Imo, Thomson wasn't faster than Shoaib or Tait.

 

[Line and Length]

In those tests, Thommo bowled full tosses because he knew the final speed was quicker than a 'normal' delivery.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

From Perth Test Match 1975/76

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/attachments/1708633170122-png.39291/

Thommo was clear ahead of the pack and guys like Roberts, Holding, Lillee etc. I don’t recall Shoaib bowling 100 mph in test matches. I would more than believe Thommo would have bowled few more mph more in his absolute best day.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Larwood was 90 mph+ too. More in the low 92-93 Mph for my best guess. I would think he was the fastest pre-Thommo though Tyson would be the favorite especially as per the reputation.

 

[capt_Luffy]

From Perth Test Match 1975/76

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/attachments/1708633170122-png.39291/

Thommo was clear ahead of the pack and guys like Roberts, Holding, Lillee etc. I don’t recall Shoaib bowling 100 mph in test matches. I would more than believe Thommo would have bowled few more mph more in his absolute best day.

Tough to say really. Shoaib has the fastest one clocked at 161.4.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Tough to say really. Shoaib has the fastest one clocked at 161.4.

You would have to think that was Thommo’s best day of his career if you really think he didn’t hit 161.3. Thommo hit 160.45 kmph in a random test match, I would think he would have most definitely bowled at least few kmph quicker in his best days.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You would have to think that was Thommo’s best day of his career if you really think he didn’t hit 161.3. Thommo hit 160.45 kmph in a random test match, I would think he would have most definitely bowled at least few kmph quicker in his best days.

Given 160 mark has been recordedly crossed 6 times I don't find that a crazy idea really.