Imran Khan vs Muttiah Muralitharan

[subshakerz]

I didn't say it wasn't. I just said you have poor standards because when stuff like Murali's record in England or Ashwin's record in SEA is provided with proper context you just dismiss it regardless.

Yes because I have to judge it overall. Two craps series, a good test and a goodish series does not equal an overall good record for Ash in Aus.

Murali in England is one of the best bowlers to tour there. Shouldn't compare him with Ash at all.

But Murali in Ind and Aus, the best batting sides of his era, is the issue.

 

[subshakerz]

I mean that's not wrong. I can always make a case to put Murali/Warne over the other great pacers. I don't generally, but it's not impossible or incomprehensible.

Then make your stance clear from the outset.

 

[Xix2565]

Yes because I have to judge it overall. Two craps series, a good test and a goodish series does not equal an overall good record for Ash in Aus.

Murali in England is one of the best bowlers to tour there. Shouldn't compare him with Ash at all.

But Murali in Ind and Aus, the best batting sides of his era, is the issue.

Then make your stance clear from the outset.

It's a terrible way to judge players is my point. That you find it good is only an indictment on your thoughts, nothing else.

Ashwin was only being mentioned because of the small tangent there. It's perfectly fine to bring him up as an example of your bias.

Are we going to pretend that Imran didn't fail or wasn't as effective at times also?

My stance has always been clear, it's just that a lot of people including you seem to have either failed reading comprehension or are just trolling me. Those are the only ways I can explain this inability to read my posts and understand my points.

 

[kyear2]

Depends on where, don't you think? Murali and Ashwin could singlehandedly win their countries games at home, at a level and consistency I don't think even the greatest fast bowlers could.

You focus on at home, that's half the battle though...

 

[kyear2]

He voted for Imran against Warne as bowlers last time. Would be interested to see his logic here for reversing himself again.

Both of you are hilarious though.

 

[kyear2]

Never is a dumb assertion. Hadlee was an ATG but didn't exactly enjoy the same success as his bowling peers let alone some of his batting inferiors. It's a team game and to dismiss contributions simply because they didn't play as well/much/etc away from home is idiotic. Might as well say you don't like cricket at all. Seems to be a growing trend here for a certain group of posters anyway who can't appreciate cricket at all.

This argument you constantly use that if one doesn't agree with you, that they don't like cricket is the absolute worst.

Away games count as much as home games do.

 

[Xix2565]

This argument you constantly use that if one doesn't agree with you, that they don't like cricket is the absolute worst.

Away games count as much as home games do.

It's not really that far from your views tbh. Stones in glass houses and all.

I don't disagree, Subz's viewpoint is that they matter more, and I feel the same way as you do in that away games shouldn't overshadow home games.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not really that far from your views tbh. Stones in glass houses and all.

I don't disagree, Subz's viewpoint is that they matter more, and I feel the same way as you do in that away games shouldn't overshadow home games.

Actually I think I am reacting to the opposite. Home record being used to prop up a worse away record.

 

[Xix2565]

Actually I think I am reacting to the opposite. Home record being used to prop up a worse away record.

That you think it's a way to prop up players rather than a full acknowledgement of their records is the problem.

 

[subshakerz]

That you think it's a way to prop up players rather than a full acknowledgement of their records is the problem.

I don't mind saying I am more impressed in assessment of players who perform outside home and in a variety of conditions. I think that is pretty much how most cricketers are judged internationally anyways.

The idea that because someone is supreme at home and therefore we should ignore them against the best teams doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Xix2565]

I don't mind saying I am more impressed in assessment of players who perform outside home and in a variety of conditions. I think that is pretty much how most cricketers are judged internationally anyways.

The idea that because someone is supreme at home and therefore we should ignore them against the best teams doesn't make sense to me.

It is one thing to be impressed by performances in a variety of conditions home and away. It's another to do what you do and dismiss performances largely out of context because of particular biases rather than honesty in evaluations.

 

[Prince EWS]

Actually I think I am reacting to the opposite.

@TheJediBrah

 

[subshakerz]

It is one thing to be impressed by performances in a variety of conditions home and away. It's another to do what you do and dismiss performances largely out of context because of particular biases rather than honesty in evaluations.

Stop making general statements and be clearer in what you are addressing, rather than screaming bias, bias weakly.

 

[subshakerz]

Both of you are hilarious though.

Why exactly did you vote for Murali against Imran and not Warne?

 

[Xix2565]

Stop making general statements and be clearer in what you are addressing.

It's as clear as you can get. Am I supposed to baby you into understanding that you would rather focus on how a player performed in very specific games (In this case Murali in India/Aus or Imran in WI) rather than assess things overall without overvaluing such small parts of their records? Or is this just a new way to troll people by being so incompetent at recognizing what you're posting?

 

[Bolo.]

It's not similar quality though if you can't do much against the toughest opponents and 20 percent of your wickets are minnows.

He's got twice as many wickets without minnows as Imran. That's a nonstarter.

Struggling away vs the best batting lineups is an actual criticism. He's not flawless. But he makes up for it by taking 6WPM. Very comparable if we ignore the total wicket tally.

 

[kyear2]

It's not really that far from your views tbh. Stones in glass houses and all.

I don't disagree, Subz's viewpoint is that they matter more, and I feel the same way as you do in that away games shouldn't overshadow home games.

And vice versa

 

[kyear2]

Why exactly did you vote for Murali against Imran and not Warne?

Wonder if you're going to ask all 20 forum members about how they voted.

In any event and this is why I update my rankings (which always changes, and needs to be updated) and this latest one was from May of this year, and echoed the previous couple itinerations.

Top 20 Batsman
Bradman

Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs
Richards

Smith
Lara
Hutton

Gavaskar
Ponting
Hammond
Kallis
Chappell
Headley
Border

Sangakkara
Sutcliffe
Pollock
Waugh
Dravid


Top 16 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Steyn
Warne
Muralitharan
Ambrose

Imran
Donald
Lillee
O'Reilly

Wasim
Garner
Trueman
Holding
Davidson


Top 12 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Sobers
Chappell
Taylor
Waugh
Ponting
Richardson
Hooper
Kallis
Lloyd
Dravid



Top 10 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Gilchrist
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Jadeja
Kapil



Top 8 Captains
Benaud
Ranatunga
Taylor
Flemming

Worrell
Jardine
Lloyd
Imran

All Time XI & Squad

Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Sir. I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^(5)
Adam Gilchrist +
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Dale Steyn (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)

Sir Leonard Hutton
Brian Lara
Sir Richard Hadlee
Muttiah Muralitharan

Injured reserves
Imran Khan
Jacques Kallis
Allan Knott


Top 25 cricketers of All Time

Tier 1
Bradman / Sobers / Marshall / Hobbs / Hadlee / McGrath / Tendulkar / Richards

Tier 2
Warne / Imran / Steyn / Muralitharan / Smith / Lara / Hammond / Kallis / Hutton / Gilchrist / Ambrose / Gavaskar / O'Reilly / Ponting / Wasim / Chappell / Headley

So. It's not some revenge tour.

The voting and arguments in our rankings poll caused me to rethink my ratings and as you can see, I have the spinners above Ambrose as well.

 

[Xix2565]

And vice versa

I don't think saying the generally high performances in most games (home or away) are why X player is greater in such comparisons is overshadowing the value of home/away games if there are underperformances in either categories.

 

[subshakerz]

The voting and arguments in our rankings poll caused me to rethink my ratings and as you can see, I have the spinners above Ambrose as well.

Interesting. So basically you have 1 tier of pacers on top including Steyn now.

Why above Ambrose if I may ask?