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S Waugh Vs Wasim

S Waugh Vs Wasim


  • Total voters
    28

capt_Luffy

International Captain
No because there's many things pujara was worse at than laxman, so it's debatable.

I never said batting position is the be all end all. Don't be dumb.
Like many more things Waugh did better than Ponting? But you ignore them very easily..... Definition of favouritism. No one is saying Waugh was better than Sachin or Lara, but his peak against such quality pacers was exceptionally great, even after considering his advantages.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Ok as long as we acknowledge that Wasim in Australia has a perfectly good record.


I see this more to Sobers credit than Wasim's detriment but then Sobers was even more exceptional as a bat than Wasim was as a bowler. But yes I will some leeway to Wasim should be given for those early maturation years which could be tougher as a pacer.


Wasn't just the drops themselves, but how they demotivated the bowlers, especially with a temperamental team like Pakistan. We saw that effect recently in the second test of Pak in Aus year.

I can't tell you how many times I would see regular drops off Wasim and Waqar after they had built up pressure and them struggle to regain their rhythm afterwards. Something similar happened to Kaneria, a better spinner than his numbers show, who had Akmal as a keeper.


I think Wasim would be a 22 averaging bowler with a healthier 4+WPM if those factors are considered. It would be much closer between him and Ambrose.

Wasim wouldn't rank high on bowling IQ like McGrath or Marshall. He was not the most thinking bowler. He often said he didn't know what ball would be coming next from his hand. His early career he was literally asking Imran what to bowl every other delivery.
I said the record was below par in comparison to Ambrose's which was exceptional.

The drops fo even further, as it almost restricts your ability to bowl your full arsenal.

Everyone always says that the top 10 for bowlers are so close and great, but after the top 3 (or 4), everyone had some little issues. Even for selecting our fav atg teams, the 3rd is an issue (for me at least)

Hadlee
Pro: clear no. 3 or 4 all time
Con: similar to McGrath, no reverse, mostly fav conditions

Ambrose: top 3
See above (though less friendly conditions)

Steyn
Pro: strike rate, India record, swing & reverse, flat era
Con: run rate, , despite flat era most success came at home

Wasim
Pro: peer ratings, reverse, variety, skill, at xis
Cons: his stats, all of them

Imran
Pro: batting, reverse
Cons: away record
 
Last edited:

subshakerz

International Coach
I said the record was below par in comparison to Ambrose's which was exceptional.
Come on this is a silly comment. Ambrose was arguably the greatest ever bowler in Aus. Nobody says Tendulkar is below par in England because Dravid was exceptional there.


Hadlee
Pro: clear no. 3 or 4 all time
Con: similar to McGrath, no reverse, mostly fav conditions

Ambrose: top 3
See above (though less friendly conditions)
The cons for both is lack of proven success outside their three choice countries. Only one good series each in SC.

Steyn
Pro: strike rate, India record, swing & reverse, flat era
Con: run rate, , despite flat era most success came at home

Wasim
Pro: peer ratings, reverse, variety, skill, at xis
Cons: his stats, all of them

Imran
Pro: batting, reverse
Cons: away record
Again, just disingenuous to call out Imran's away record while Steyn's is almost the same. And with context, Imran in Aus, Eng and WI is worldclass, he doesnt have an 'away' problem.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Australian batting was very good for most of Waugh's prime but not the overwhelming machine it would become post '99 so that mitigates somewhat the ease of batting down the order in a strong team point. And even then his numbers are huge enough to suggest that he batted frequently for a big chunk of the innings as opposed to padding his stats exclusively with asterisks down the order.
 

OverratedSanity

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This is a good point actually. Can’t rate Laxman higher than Pujara if you care so much about batting position.
Laxman at number 3: Avg 45, 4 hundreds
Laxman at number 4: Avg 50, 1 hundred

Waugh at number 3: Avg 36, 1 hundred
Waugh at number 4: Avg 33, 0 hundreds

Hmmmmm, very interesting 🤔 🤔 🤔

Maybe I should start to sincerely argue vvs is better than fraud Waugh :ph34r:
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Laxman at number 3: Avg 45, 4 hundreds
Laxman at number 4: Avg 50, 1 hundred

Waugh at number 3: Avg 36, 1 hundred
Waugh at number 4: Avg 33, 0 hundreds

Hmmmmm, very interesting 🤔 🤔 🤔

Maybe I should start to sincerely argue vvs is better than fraud Waugh :ph34r:
Laxman at 1&2: Avg 28.5, 1 hundred
 

OverratedSanity

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Lol. Laxman begged management to try him at middle order because he couldn't handle opening......
Still did it. Also begged management repeatedly to promote him to 3.

Your retort about laxman fell flat give it up and find another angle. He succeeded up the order unlike Fraud Waugh.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Come on this is a silly comment. Ambrose was arguably the greatest ever bowler in Aus. Nobody says Tendulkar is below par in England because Dravid was exceptional there.



The cons for both is lack of proven success outside their three choice countries. Only one good series each in SC.


Again, just disingenuous to call out Imran's away record while Steyn's is almost the same. And with context, Imran in Aus, Eng and WI is worldclass, he doesnt have an 'away' problem.
Literally said that he was credited for bowling in the flat era, but most of his successes were at home.

Dude no, England I give you you to his first tour, but no. Australia wasn't world class and I've said multiple times WI was very good.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Literally said that he was credited for bowling in the flat era, but most of his successes were at home.

Dude no, England I give you you to his first tour, but no. Australia wasn't world class and I've said multiple times WI was very good.
Thank you for conceding on Imran in England, so he is worldclass there now. We are making progress.

Did you see my post on this which looks at his Aus prime bowling numbers including WSC? Including WSC, its 66 wickets in 13 tests@24 against strong batting lineups. Why isn't that worldclass?
 

kyear2

International Coach
@Coronis , congratulations dude. You managed to get kyear2 to admit being wrong about something.

There is just another 99 things that we need your effort on :D
My God can't you let anything pass you?

And unlike you I have no issues admitting to be wrong about anything.

Should really take some of your own advice.
 

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