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S Waugh Vs Wasim

S Waugh Vs Wasim

  • Total voters
    28
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Wasim in Aus isn't below par. He had two worldclass series there and overall good nos. Eng and Ind aren't great but impacted again by playing as a young teen.


You can't just slide over the impact of a teen trying to be a worldclass pacer and the extra time it takes.


Depends. How much impact do you think slips had?


I respect that position. He is a hard one to rate. I just gave some context for his career.
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I tried to give both sides of the arguments.

Australia was in comp to his closest rival.

The sliding part I don't get, it took Sobers from 54 to 58 to gain traction as a full batsman, took even longer to get his footing as a seamer, due to bowling multiple styles.

With regards to the slips, it was funny that I found these clips that started with drops. I don't know how to start to calculate that, but it was ridiculous. @peterhrt told the story how the Aussie bowlers were having chances dropped, and brought in Simpson. Couldn't have been that difficult a fix, but depends on how big a problem they thought it was.

Do you think the 3 contributing factors were sufficient to explain away his record? Like what's your perspective?
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Coronis said:
He didn’t cut down his scoring. He cut out more risky shots to increase his scoring and thus increase his scoring output. Its like if you rated Lillee or Hadlee less for reducing their pace and becoming more effective.
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That's a differnce between cutting pace and cutting out shots.

But yeah, Steve is probably one that I overly down graded while watching for some reason. Guess was just never really a fan, and yes his numbers were impressive, very impressive actually.

One that I can admit to being overly harsh on and was probably wrong and underrated him.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
kyear2 said:
I tried to give both sides of the arguments.

Australia was in comp to his closest rival.
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Ok as long as we acknowledge that Wasim in Australia has a perfectly good record for an ATG.

kyear2 said:
The sliding part I don't get, it took Sobers from 54 to 58 to gain traction as a full batsman, took even longer to get his footing as a seamer, due to bowling multiple styles.
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I see this more to Sobers credit than Wasim's detriment but then Sobers was even more exceptional as a bat than Wasim was as a bowler. But yes I will some leeway to Wasim should be given for those early maturation years which could be tougher as a pacer.

kyear2 said:
With regards to the slips, it was funny that I found these clips that started with drops. I don't know how to start to calculate that, but it was ridiculous. @peterhrt told the story how the Aussie bowlers were having chances dropped, and brought in Simpson. Couldn't have been that difficult a fix, but depends on how big a problem they thought it was.
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Wasn't just the drops themselves, but how they demotivated the bowlers, especially with a temperamental team like Pakistan. We saw that effect recently in the second test of Pak in Aus year.

I can't tell you how many times I would see regular drops off Wasim and Waqar after they had built up pressure and them struggle to regain their rhythm afterwards. Something similar happened to Kaneria, a better spinner than his numbers show, who had Akmal as a keeper.

kyear2 said:
Do you think the 3 contributing factors were sufficient to explain away his record? Like what's your perspective?
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I think Wasim would be a 22 averaging bowler with a healthier 4+WPM if those factors are considered. It would be much closer between him and Ambrose as peer opinion reflects too.

Wasim wouldn't rank high on bowling IQ like McGrath or Marshall. He was not the most thinking bowler. He often said he didn't know what ball would be coming next from his hand. His early career he was literally asking Imran what to bowl every other delivery. I can't put him top tier because of that.
 
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OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Waugh batted down the order in a strong lineup and failed on the few occasions he batted higher than 5. I appreciate he was very successful against strong attacks and he deserves credit for it but people go way over the top with it. It is simply easier to put up better numbers with the bat if you're in a good team and come in to bat later in the innings.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
OverratedSanity said:
Waugh batted down the order in a strong lineup and failed on the few occasions he batted higher than 5. I appreciate he was very successful against strong attacks and he deserves credit for it but people go way over the top with it. It is simply easier to put up better numbers with the bat if you're in a good team and come in to bat later in the innings.
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No. I think batting down the order is a fair point but disregarding the exceptional quality of attacks is unfair.

Like I said, find me another peak averaging over 70 against such pacers.

And not just Gilly-type late order bashing either. Some high quality knocks there like the 200, the 65*, batting an entire day against Donald/Pollock with the match in the balance. They wereñt just cheap runs. He was Australia's brick wall.

 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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capt_Luffy said:
Because he lacks their output? Unlike Waugh??? (Not like I am putting Waugh up there myself). The dumb point is still rating Laxman higher than Pujara.....
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I am OK with Pujara>Laxman, there's certainly arguments in favour of it. Many against it too though.
 
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