Wasim Akram among his peers

[subshakerz]

Pretty sure Pollock had a major injury in the early 2000s and was medium pace by the time he toured Aus in the 2000s

Shoaib and Steyn didnt do too badly in Aus

Yup. And again, nobody is claiming that pitches weren't flat.

 

[Coronis]

Pretty sure Pollock had a major injury in the early 2000s and was medium pace by the time he toured Aus in the 2000s

Shoaib and Steyn didnt do too badly in Aus

37 = not too badly. Good to know.

Yes I’m talking about Pollock’s tour right in the middle of his peak where he did horribly. And Walsh’s tour right in his peak where he also did horribly.

 

[Coronis]

Yup. And again, nobody is claiming that pitches weren't flat.

No, you’re claiming they were flatter than 90’s Pak, which is patently untrue, both for people who watched both and statistically.

 

[subshakerz]

37 = not too badly. Good to know.

Yes I’m talking about Pollock’s tour right in the middle of his peak where he did horribly. And Walsh’s tour right in his peak where he also did horribly.

Shoaib averaged 30 and Steyn 26 in their series in the 2000s. Each took a couple of fifers.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

37 = not too badly. Good to know.

Yes I’m talking about Pollock’s tour right in the middle of his peak where he did horribly. And Walsh’s tour right in his peak where he also did horribly.

Shoaib didn’t average 37. He averaged 30 odd and was great in the first two tests.

Pollock was never going to do well there at his pace after his injury. I don’t disagree though that the pitches were very flat.

 

[subshakerz]

No, you’re claiming they were flatter than 90’s Pak, which is patently untrue, both for people who watched both and statistically.

Really? Which people thought pitches in the 90s were more sporting than 2000s Aus wickets?

The Aus wickets stick out because folks were used to them being pacy and suddenly lost their movement and pace.

 

[Coronis]

Shoaib averaged 30 and Steyn 26 in their series in the 2000s. Each took a couple of fifers.

Yeah mb I misread Shoaib’s stats.

Anyway, I ain’t gonna continue on this point gone on too long.

I think McGrath’s peak was better, you think Wasim’s peak was better.

I think Australian pitches in the 00’s were flatter, you think Pakistani pitches in the 90’s were flatter.

Agree to disagree.

 

[subshakerz]

I think McGrath’s peak was better, you think Wasim’s peak was better.

I think Australian pitches in the 00’s were flatter, you think Pakistani pitches in the 90’s were flatter.

Agree to disagree.

Sure. And I don't mind even saying it's somewhat close. I just objected to using that particular stat metric to determine it. You used it before too when we were discussing Steve Smith's home conditions and I objected to it then.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Butterfly effect. If Akram would’ve grown up in Australia he would’ve grown up to be a different bowler according to the conditions. Same with respect to Mcgrath

Thats not the point,
Akram with great fielders vs McGrath with bad fielders will give you different results.
McGrath benefitted from Australia's overall superiority compared to most other bowlers. Off course he is one of the most important reasons for that superiority, but there are many other reasons too.

 

[subshakerz]

Thats not the point,
Akram with great fielders vs McGrath with bad fielders will give you different results.
McGrath benefitted from Australia's overall superiority compared to most other bowlers. Off course he is one of the most important reasons for that superiority, but there are many other reasons too.

Not enough credit it given to this point. Yes he was a top bowler, but if you have a combo of worldclass bowling and fielding support and an ATG batting lineup to browbeat opposition, he had a lot of advantages others did not.

Scoreboard pressure especially is not given enough weightage here.

 

[kyear2]

If we assume same skillsets, Akram thrives more.

How, he literally learned reverse from Imran...

 

[smash84]

How, he literally learned reverse from Imran...

Lol, this is actually a very good point.

 

[kyear2]

Not enough credit it given to this point. Yes he was a top bowler, but if you have a combo of worldclass bowling and fielding support and an ATG batting lineup to browbeat opposition, he had a lot of advantages others did not.

Scoreboard pressure especially is not given enough weightage here.

Yes Wasim didn't have the catching support, scoreboard pressure is hit and miss as his first innings performances weren't appreciably worse than his other innings.

But Wasim was taught reverse swing by Imran, counts for some kind of an advantage. Plus he also had world class bowling support.

 

[subshakerz]

How, he literally learned reverse from Imran...

Dude I am not trying to create an alternative history. I am saying if we took their skillsets as was in their playing days, Wasim thrives more in McGrath's conditions than McGrath in Pakistan.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes Wasim didn't have the catching support, scoreboard pressure is hit and miss as his first innings performances weren't appreciably worse than his other innings.

But Wasim was taught reverse swing by Imran, counts for some kind of an advantage. Plus he also had world class bowling support.

It's not about Wasim. Every fast bowler has some benefits. But nobody had the whole package that McGrath was served for success. Especially scoreboard pressure. McGrath had the greatest ATG batting lineup essentially serving him easier pressure wickets games after game.

 

[kyear2]

Dude I am not trying to create an alternative history. I am saying if we took their skillsets as was in their playing days, Wasim thrives more in McGrath's conditions than McGrath in Pakistan.

So you want to keep Wasim's advantages and take away McGrath's?

 

[subshakerz]

So you want to keep Wasim's advantages and take away McGrath's?

No.

 

[kyear2]

It's not about Wasim. Every fast bowler has some benefits. But nobody had the whole package that McGrath was served for success. Especially scoreboard pressure. McGrath had the greatest ATG batting lineup essentially serving him easier pressure wickets games after game.

Still have to take the wickets. You do know Wasim had a pretty decent batting lineup as well.
If you want to use catching, fine, but Wasim wasn't only taught the art of reverse, but how to expedite it. To pretend that also wasn't an advantage to being in the Pakistan team, then you're ignoring reality.

 

[kyear2]

It's not about Wasim. Every fast bowler has some benefits. But nobody had the whole package that McGrath was served for success. Especially scoreboard pressure. McGrath had the greatest ATG batting lineup essentially serving him easier pressure wickets games after game.

Without McGrath, would Australia have been a top 2 team of all time?

 

[subshakerz]

Without McGrath, would Australia have been a top 2 team of all time?

No. Or without Warne. Doesn't mean they didn't benefit from the team they were in.