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Kallis Vs Wasim
- Thread starter Jumno
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Wasim easily. Better in primary disciplines, and his batting makes Kallis's bowling less relevant.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Bazball bhai already did this comparison I think
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HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Tough. Wasim is better in the primary discipline, so will tilt towards him
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Do you rate Kallis as better in primary?
kyear2
International Coach
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Wasim was considered the best pacer of his time along with Ambrose. Kallis was never that good with the bat.
Very close on primary discipline. Wasim relative to other ATG bowlers is mostly a tradeoff between his longevity and his low number of wickets against bats of any quality.
It's close when considering other disciplines. Kallis even takes it on longevity (as an AR, not a bat). Huge difference in cumulative workload.
It's close when considering other disciplines. Kallis even takes it on longevity (as an AR, not a bat). Huge difference in cumulative workload.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Wasim gets rated him among the top ten bowlers ever and is usually the choice for best pacer of his era.
Is Kallis even close to that as a bat? Not really. Hard to think of a time he was rated even best in the world much less his era.
Coronis
International Coach
Difference is Kallis was underrated and Wasim was overrated. Generally here on CW Wasim comes in at what, 7th or 8th amongst pacers and Ambrose and McGrath are considered superior from his era. Kallis is firmly in the top 15 for most (13th I believe on the last poll, right behind Ponting) and is ranked behind Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting from his era. I’d say thats comparable, especially considering the amount of pacers vs batsmen in a team.
Edit: Actually Wasim considered 9th here in the last poll. (Personally I have him 8th just behind Donald) I’d say him and Donald are about as close as Kallis and Ponting according to consensus opinion on here.
5 quicks I consider clearly ahead of Akram with a bunch of overlap in careers. 7 bowlers total.
2 bats clearly better than Kallis from his time.
Arguments for other bowlers and bats for each, but not clear.
I don't consider quality of peers to be a particularly definitive way of assessing players. If I did, I'd say Kallis was clearly better just in primary.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Kallis wasnt underrated, he is overrated on this forum. He was rated exactly as he should have been because there was always at least a couple of batsmen in the world who were bigger threats than that deadweight. Nobody worried about Kallis the way they would with Dravid, who could bat you out of the game, or Ponting or Hayden, who would dominate your attack.
Only stat nerds who barely watched Kallis bat are now post-career retroactively giving him a rep that didn't exist in his 20 year career.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Hayden lol
kyear2
International Coach
I would say he's well ahead of Hayden and Dravid, and only just behind Ponting.
Yes, he wouldn't often adapt to suit the situation, and didn't "seem" to have that added gear, but that was possibly his only major flaw.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Again we can debate overall career but in the mid 2000s they would all be ahead of Kallis. Give me a time in his 18/19 years when Kallis would be without a doubt best bat in the world.
Which cost SA. Also lack of doubles is a minor flaw. Lack of impact innings too generally. He wasn't a guy going to cause sleepless night to opposition teams.
My friend, you need to realise that Kallis getting rated higher in this forum is for the exact reason Viv's stock is falling.
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yup Hayden mid-2000s was higher rated than Kallis as a bat. Not overall though.
Quality isn't static.
Who are you gonna rate higher if Kane averages 80 for the next x years (and fixes holes in record), Smith averages 30, and Bavuma averages 100?
Smith would be rated the best bat for the majority of career, despite Kane being a better bat overall. Bavuma would be the best bat for the next x years, but short of both on career.
Coronis
International Coach
I’d say he was the best bat in the world for this period.
stats.espncricinfo.com
Nobody else was averaging 70, let alone 80, across this period (excluding Hussey, but yeah that was literally his first 6 tests all at home in the 05/06 summer). But Ponting was more exciting and India has more fans so Ponting and Dravid were probably considered above him then.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Nobody else was averaging 70, let alone 80, across this period (excluding Hussey, but yeah that was literally his first 6 tests all at home in the 05/06 summer). But Ponting was more exciting and India has more fans so Ponting and Dravid were probably considered above him then.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Dravid, Ponting, and Lara were all rated ahead in that period sorry.I’d say he was the best bat in the world for this period.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Nobody else was averaging 70, let alone 80, across this period (excluding Hussey, but yeah that was literally his first 6 tests all at home in the 05/06 summer). But Ponting was more exciting and India has more fans so Ponting and Dravid were probably considered above him then.
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