Rank batting and bowling ARs based on their secondary disciplines

[subshakerz]

As the title suggests, what would be the top five ARs based only on their performance level in their secondary discipline?

Avoiding 'balanced ARs' like Botham or Cairns.

 

[Coronis]

I don’t think Botham was a balanced allrounder tbh.

 

[subshakerz]

I don’t think Botham was a balanced allrounder tbh.

Really? Interesting. What was his primary? Genuine question.

 

[ataraxia]

Imran top by a long way if Miller isn't counted. He averaged 44 with bat ffs (incidentally in the best bowling peak ever).

 

[OverratedSanity]

Botham was clearly a bowling all rounder

 

[OverratedSanity]

1. Botham's batting
2. Sobers' bowling
3. Miller's batting
4. Jadeja's batting
5. Imran's batting

 

[subshakerz]

Botham was clearly a bowling all rounder

No he wasn't. Batted in the top 6 his entire career. Same with Miller who was a regular bat and bowler since the beginning.

 

[Coronis]

No he wasn't. Batted in the top 6 his entire career. Same with Miller who was a regular bat and bowler since the beginning.

Its not about his position its about his output, for me. He was a genuine ATG bowler for a time, he never reached that sustained level of form as a batsman.

Miller is an interesting case, you could call him a bowling allrounder at test level and a batting allrounder at FC level.

A balanced AR would need to be equally good/mediocre in both disciplines, of which there are very few I would presume.

Something like a 40/28 would be a perfect balanced AR for me.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Really? Interesting. What was his primary? Genuine question.

Botham was genuinely close to being the best bowler in the world for a time, and averaged 20ish. IMO easily bowling is his primary discipline

 

[subshakerz]

Its not about his position its about his output, for me. He was a genuine ATG bowler for a time, he never reached that sustained level of form as a batsman.

Claiming he is a bowling allrounder means that he was in the side as a bowler mainly, whereas that is not true. He started as a mainline bat and was never seen as anything less until the end. And I think it's debatable which of his disciplines he was better at since he ended up with pretty much standard output for a bat and bowler of the 80s, though I will agree an edge as a bowler.

Miller is an interesting case, you could call him a bowling allrounder at test level and a batting allrounder at FC level.

A balanced AR would need to be equally good/mediocre in both disciplines, of which there are very few I would presume.

Something like a 40/28 would be a perfect balanced AR for me.

Not really how I see it. A balanced AR for me is pretty much a standard bowling and batting option for the team he is in without being greatly better in one discipline.

 

[subshakerz]

Botham was genuinely close to being the best bowler in the world for a time, and averaged 20ish. IMO easily bowling is his primary discipline

Yeah but that smoothlined as his career went, and he still produced decent batting output more often in his mid phase. Overall maybe bowling slightly stronger suit but definitely a balanced AR for me.

 

[reyrey]

Botham was genuinely close to being the best bowler in the world for a time, and averaged 20ish. IMO easily bowling is his primary discipline

He also averaged 40 with the bat at the time too. Then both his batting and bowling dropped off. His bowling only got progressively worse, but he had a batting resurgence in the mid/late portion of his career before it dropped off again towards the end.

He had a much higher peak as a bowler, but was more consistent with the bat over his career.

 

[subshakerz]

Here is my list:

1. Sobers' bowling. Regular 4th bowler. Slight edge over Imran based on bowling load he took.
2. Imran's batting. Scored runs in most countries, just got better and better, was a standard bat by 80s standards.
3. Jadeja's batting. Needs more showings away to get ahead.
4. Flintoff's batting. Batted no.6/7 at a high SR. Dangerous bat.
5. Kallis bowling. Started out as a standard bowler and declined, but overall consistent returns.

 

[kyear2]

Here is my list:

1. Sobers' bowling. Regular 4th bowler. Slight edge over Imran based on bowling load he took.
2. Imran's batting. Scored runs in most countries, just got better and better, was a standard bat by 80s standards.
3. Jadeja's batting. Needs more showings away to get ahead.
4. Flintoff's batting. Batted no.6/7 at a high SR. Dangerous bat.
5. Kallis bowling. Started out as a standard bowler and declined, but overall consistent returns.

Declined or reduced?

Either way, think you under rate.Kallis's bowling.

No major issues with the remainder of the list.

 

[subshakerz]

Declined or reduced?

Either way, think you under rate.Kallis's bowling.

No major issues with the remainder of the list.

Reduced, you're right. Though last third of his career was noticeably less sharp. First 1/3rd was a proper bowler almost.

 

[kyear2]

Reduced, you're right. Though last third of his career was noticeably less sharp. First 1/3rd was a proper bowler almost.

But it preserved his batting and he was still equally valuable standing at slip.

So not for the better?

 

[subshakerz]

But it preserved his batting and he was still equally valuable standing at slip.

So not for the better?

I guess. But it is part of the challenge of being an AR. At least Sobers could bowl spin and Imran could bat lower order.

Makes me think a player like early stage Botham was always unsustainable.

 

[kyear2]

I guess. But it is part of the challenge of being an AR. At least Sobers could bowl spin and Imran could bat lower order.

Makes me think a player like early stage Botham was always unsustainable.

It's about doing what's best for the team though, not what's better for nerds to argue about. Sobers over bowled himself to hilarious degrees. And it definitely hurt his batting.

And yes, Botham was unsustainable.

 

[subshakerz]

It's about doing what's best for the team though, not what's better for nerds to argue about. Sobers over bowled himself to hilarious degrees. And it definitely hurt his batting.

Did it? Don't think that is reflected in the record.

And yes, Botham was unsustainable.

Which is why you should give Miller more credit. He was the closest to make it sustainable.

 

[Coronis]

It's about doing what's best for the team though, not what's better for nerds to argue about. Sobers over bowled himself to hilarious degrees. And it definitely hurt his batting.

And yes, Botham was unsustainable.

On average he bowled 252 odd balls a match. Looking at his stats when he bowled above that..

41 matches 70 innings 3517 @ 59.61 12 tons 17 50’s

and at or below

52 matches 90 innings 4515 @ 56.44 14 tons 13 50’s