Richard Hadlee vs Imran Khan

[PlayerComparisons]

Two ATG quicks

 

[subshakerz]

Imran better player, Hadlee I think a slightly better bowler (though occasionally I have my doubts).

 

[kyear2]

Hadlee the better bowlers
Imran the better all rounder
Hadlee the better cricketer

 

[subshakerz]

Hadlee the better bowlers
Imran the better all rounder
Hadlee the better cricketer

The better allrounder is the better cricketer. Otherwise it's a meaningless term.

 

[kyear2]

The better allrounder is the better cricketer. Otherwise it's a meaningless term.

We can cordially agree to disagree.

And it kinda is.

I believe one of the original definitions was being able to make the team with bat and ball.

Now many players have ever met that, off the top of my head, 6?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yes better allrounder = better cricketer

Jadeja > Bradman

 

[subshakerz]

Yes better allrounder = better cricketer

Jadeja > Bradman

No because Bradman isnt an allrounder.

To me, an allrounder has to be able to bat regularly in the top 7 and bowl in one of five regular bowling options.

 

[subshakerz]

We can cordially agree to disagree.

And it kinda is.

I believe one of the original definitions was being able to make the team with bat and ball.

Now many players have ever met that, off the top of my head, 6?

All-rounder to me is just a distinction to separate certain cricketers in a separate category and then we judge them as we normally would. I don't think balanced = better.

So Hadlee > Botham as an AR. But Imran > Hadlee.

Anything else is confusion IMO.

 

[subshakerz]

The gap between Imran and Hadlee as bowlers is not a wide as most here would assume though, once you take Imran's early start and late career pure bat phase into context.

I actually think 1990 onwards series with bat and ball shouldn't be considered in Imran's career in these discussions since they downgrade his bowling and upgrade his batting in a misleading way.

 

[Coronis]

Now many players have ever met that, off the top of my head, 6?

Depends on the team.

 

[ataraxia]

I believe one of the original definitions was being able to make the team with bat and ball.

Now many players have ever met that, off the top of my head, 6?

It's obviously a stupid definition but there's more than 6.

Noble*
Faulkner
Kelleway*
Miller
Gomez*
Goddard
Sobers
Procter*
Rice
Botham
Imran
Hadlee*
Cairns
Flintoff*
Shakib
Jadeja (in the last 8 years)*

* for those that are particularly questionable

 

[capt_Luffy]

It's obviously a stupid definition but there's more than 6.

Noble*
Faulkner
Kelleway*
Miller
Gomez*
Goddard
Sobers
Procter*
Rice
Botham
Imran
Hadlee*
Cairns
Flintoff*
Shakib
Jadeja (in the last 8 years)*

* for those that are particularly questionable

Noble is definitely not questionable. He had an average of 40 is FC and by far was seen as a leading Aussie bat of his time.

 

[ataraxia]

Noble is definitely not questionable. He had an average of 40 is FC and by far was seen as a leading Aussie bat of his time.

Oh, that was to do with his bowling. But I guess immediately pre-war Australia was almost as high-scoring as post-war periods.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Oh, that was to do with his bowling. But I guess immediately pre-war Australia was almost as high-scoring as post-war periods.

I mean, he does averages lower than Faulkner with the ball

 

[ataraxia]

I mean, he does averages lower than Faulkner with the ball

And based off his small test sample size Faulkner wasn't particularly good with the ball either.

 

[shortpitched713]

Imran and Miller are my equal greatest "all-rounders" for balanced excellence in both disciplines.

But Hadlee is just about my first pick on an all-time team.

 

[kyear2]

Imran and Miller are my equal greatest "all-rounders" for balanced excellence in both disciplines.

But Hadlee is just about my first pick on an all-time team.

Imran and Miller averaged 37 with the bat, that wasn't excellence.

Hadlee isn't my no. 1 selection for an all time team, but I can see where if he's making the team, can easily be a top 5 one.

But of these two, if I were to chose only one for an average test team, it's Hadlee. He's the better bowler and that's the primary discipline for which he's selected.

 

[shortpitched713]

Imran and Miller averaged 37 with the bat, that wasn't excellence.

It's a specialist level average, being carried by one of your top bowlers. There's never been excellence like that.

 

[kyear2]

It's a specialist level average, being carried by one of your top bowlers. There's never been excellence like that.

How many wickets per match did he produced?

Sobers for example provided more top end brilliance and versatility than he did.

 

[Migara]

Hadlee the better bowlers
Imran the better all rounder
Hadlee the better cricketer

Imran is the better cricketer when captaincy also considered.