How much did slip cordons affect McGrath's and Wasim's records?

[TheJediBrah]

Ok but is that accusation that Pak bowlers greatly benefitted from it or that foreign bowlers greatly were disadvantaged from it.

Clearly it was both

With this + rampant tampering, all Pakistan bowlers should have 10-15 runs added on their averages tbh

 

[centurymaker]

As I said earlier, cricket was a joke before they started showing hawkeye. So even the stats are a bit of a joke. Can't take anything at face value. Umpiring was so baised at home for Aus that it was ridiculous. McGrath's average would go up by upto 5 points without the umpires and especially the slip catching.

Almost every former player's average would be different (and mostly vastly different) with correct and fair decisions like we have now. Since decisions were sooo unfair before the technology age, I find it hard to take anybody's stats on face value. I'd complement stats with peer reviews and reputations. One decision can change so much and we used to have multiple crap decisions every day.. so how can stats at face value be used. "things even out" was the saying. But thats BS.

For instance, suppose you were probably gonna score a 150 in a certain innings but you were denied at 44 by another crap decision.

The line of thought was you would somehow make up for that in 'equal proportion' when a decision goes in your favour in another match. How is that even possible?

You should have been out on 63 but got given a life by the umpire. Are you really going to get the 150 now? It doesn't work like that. Decisions change everything significantly. The bad decisions don't balance out in quantity either, let alone the impact!

 

[centurymaker]

India were fighting against it for years, everyone else was using it but they refused. Draw your own conclusions

Because Dhoni didn't trust technology or the ones managing the technology. He felt the impact/hawkeye lines and trajectories could be tweaked by those managing it. And we have seen that it is possible to show different impact points, even now.

Ofcourse India has benefited the most by technology both home and away. That's the conclusion.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Umpiring was so baised at home for Aus that it was ridiculous. McGrath's average would go up by 5 points without the umpires and the slip catching.

poor attempt m8, he had a better average away than he did at home

 

[Son Of Coco]

More importantly, what would Mcgrath average of he had Aamir Sohail shelling a catch in the slips off his bowling once a week? Would he have continued with his same corridor bowling MO and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a straighter line somewhat negating the advantages his height gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

And how long would Sohail have lived if he was shelling a catch a week off McGrath?

I suspect he would have become the victim of a pig hunting 'accident'.

 

[TheJediBrah]

On more thought, I reckon bad slips helped Wasim. It encouraged him to focus on attacking the stumps & reverse swing (with tampering) which made him more effective, especially against tail-enders which consisted of an unusually high proportion of his wickets.

So normalising for all these factors:
- Tampering (+5)
- Home umpires (+5)
- tail-end wickets (+5)

So bump his adjusted career average up to ~40. He's basically Ashish Nehra

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Some good waaaahs in this thread

 

[Son Of Coco]

MoTS MoTS MoTS...... Whatever, anyone with eyes could had seen they weren't outs. But on point with Aussie game; with fair umpiring they can't even win against India at home anymore......

I'm not sure what's worse. This, or the fact India can't win a World Cup at home with their own choice of pitch.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I'll leave this here as I saw someone minimising pakistani umpire effect earlier

McGrath should have received the Spirit of Cricket award that year for having the restraint not to call the umpire a little fat cheating ****.

 

[kyear2]

poor attempt m8, he had a better average away than he did at home

That's the part of the argument that falls apart.

 

[subshakerz]

And how long would Sohail have lived if he was shelling a catch a week off McGrath?

I suspect he would have become the victim of a pig hunting 'accident'.

Ah ah, this is assuming McGrath isn't Pakistani in this scenario. So no pigs then...

McGrath should have received the Spirit of Cricket award that year for having the restraint not to call the umpire a little fat cheating ****.

He was even kind enough to try to teach him the LBW law at the end of the over.

 

[Son Of Coco]

He was even kind enough to try to teach him the LBW law at the end of the over.

He is a gentleman and a scholar.

 

[subshakerz]

On more thought, I reckon bad slips helped Wasim. It encouraged him to focus on attacking the stumps & reverse swing (with tampering) which made him more effective, especially against tail-enders which consisted of an unusually high proportion of his wickets.

You're right, Sarfraz Nawaz when he came up with reverse swing pretty much was trying to find a way to counter the bad slippers, not the baked clay pitches.

 

[subshakerz]

As I said earlier, cricket was a joke before they started showing hawkeye. So even the stats are a bit of a joke. Can't take anything at face value. Umpiring was so baised at home for Aus that it was ridiculous. McGrath's average would go up by upto 5 points without the umpires and especially the slip catching.

Almost every former player's average would be different (and mostly vastly different) with correct and fair decisions like we have now. Since decisions were sooo unfair before the technology age, I find it hard to take anybody's stats on face value. I'd complement stats with peer reviews and reputations. One decision can change so much and we used to have multiple crap decisions every day.. so how can stats at face value be used. "things even out" was the saying. But thats BS.

For instance, suppose you were probably gonna score a 150 in a certain innings but you were denied at 44 by another crap decision.

The line of thought was you would somehow make up for that in 'equal proportion' when a decision goes in your favour in another match. How is that even possible?

You should have been out on 63 but got given a life by the umpire. Are you really going to get the 150 now? It doesn't work like that. Decisions change everything significantly. The bad decisions don't balance out in quantity either, let alone the impact!

You have spoken many forbidden truths here. But the masses will not understand and you will be branded a heretic.

 

[the big bambino]

As I said earlier, cricket was a joke before they started showing hawkeye. So even the stats are a bit of a joke. Can't take anything at face value. Umpiring was so baised at home for Aus that it was ridiculous. McGrath's average would go up by upto 5 points without the umpires and especially the slip catching.

McGrath's career occurred in the neutral umpire era so I'm not sure where the bias is coming from. Neither is it fair when to single Aus out when India's commitment to umpiring standards and decision making innovations has been less than stellar.

McGrath threatened outside edges, pads and stumps A fifth of his wickets were lbw. A third lbw and bowled. He could get wickets anyway. Slip catching can be condition reliant too. In Australia that's your go to. In other conditions you target the pads more often. McGrath could adjust. His record is almost unique in succeeding against everyone everywhere. The only time he averaged over 30 was in Pakistan (31). No challenge was a problem.

Personally think he'd have given chumps like Sohail so many opportunities he'd have turned him into a great slipper.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Some good waaaahs in this thread

Sherlock over here

 

[Sunil1z]

Remind me, which country was against bringing in DRS, the most useful tool for fairness in cricketing decisions?

*mic drop*

You think this is a *mic drop * moment?
Then how about this : INDIA have started using DRS from 2015 onwards and are yet to lose Test series against Australia since that

No need to reply seriously, I am trolling here .
I think India took the revenge of umpiring errors in 1999 series in 2001 home series.
We all need to save our trolling energy for the year end Border-Gavaskar trophy

 

[subshakerz]

You think this is a *mic drop * moment?
Then how about this : INDIA have started using DRS from 2015 onwards and are yet to lose Test series against Australia since that

No need to reply seriously, I am trolling here .
I think India took the revenge of umpiring errors in 1999 series in 2001 home series.
We all need to save our trolling energy for the year end Border-Gavaskar trophy

Lol I miss the pre-DRS days we can blame series losses not on our teams failing.

 

[centurymaker]

McGrath's career occurred in the neutral umpire era so I'm not sure where the bias is coming from. Neither is it fair when to single Aus out when India's commitment to umpiring standards and decision making innovations has been less than stellar.

McGrath threatened outside edges, pads and stumps A fifth of his wickets were lbw. A third lbw and bowled. He could get wickets anyway. Slip catching can be condition reliant too. In Australia that's your go to. In other conditions you target the pads more often. McGrath could adjust. His record is almost unique in succeeding against everyone everywhere. The only time he averaged over 30 was in Pakistan (31). No challenge was a problem.

Personally think he'd have given chumps like Sohail so many opportunities he'd have turned him into a great slipper.

Those umpires weren't very neutral when it came to their decisions, otherwise I agree McGrath is an ATG and would have succeeded regardless in any conditions but his average would be a little higher with crap fielders etc.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm not sure what's worse. This, or the fact India can't win a World Cup at home with their own choice of pitch.

The fact that Aussies are all of a sudden giving importance to ODIs after losing two consecutive BGTs at home.....