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Steve Smith vs Brian Lara

Who is the better test batsman?

  • Total voters
    48
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Except Lara's away record is largely propped up by performances against non-ATG attacks.
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Don’t think Tendulkar has dominated many ATG attacks away(2010 SA, 99 Aus(a little borderline due to Warne’s form and Gillespie’s absence) only ones that come to mind). Even at home, I don’t think he dominated an ATG attack(only 2001 Aus comes to mind).
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
Except Lara's away record is largely propped up by performances against non-ATG attacks.
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I'd like you to show all the poor attacks Lara propped up his away average with. Australia? Nope. SL? Nope. NZ? Nope. Pakistan? Nope. RSA? Nope. His best average away was vs SL with Murali and Vaas both going ham. Away to South Africa his one series outside of Donald was vs Pollock and Ntini not atg but still very good and challenging.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
Slifer said:
I'd like you to show all the poor attacks Lara propped up his away average with. Australia? Nope. SL? Nope. NZ? Nope. Pakistan? Nope. RSA? Nope. His best average away was vs SL with Murali and Vaas both going ham. Away to South Africa his one series outside of Donald was vs Pollock and Ntini not atg but still very good and challenging.
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I specifically said non-ATG attacks. It doesn't mean poor attacks, though some often were poor/mid.

But his records specifically in NZ and Pak were propped by such mid attacks. England is arguable since the attacks were mostly mid and he failed against the Ashes quartet. In SA and Aus the records were propped by good but non-ATG attacks. Yes to SL though that was one series.

To be fair, the same critique can apply in certain countries to Tendulkar too like in NZ and SL. But trying to present Tendulkar as just scoring against B attacks with a sprinkle of good ones is just false. Tendulkar just faced more ATGs than Lara.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
srbhkshk said:
Bro Shiv averaged the same as Lara with the stance of an autistic crab. If someone had actually told him how to hold the bat Lara would be as good as his fart.
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The point being, if Lara had Shiv's mentality he'd have a lot more not outs very easily....
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
I specifically said non-ATG attacks. It doesn't mean poor attacks, though some often were poor/mid.

But his records specifically in NZ and Pak were propped by such mid attacks. England is arguable since the attacks were mostly mid and he failed against the Ashes quartet. In SA and Aus the records were propped by good but non-ATG attacks. Yes to SL though that was one series.

To be fair, the same critique can apply in certain countries to Tendulkar too like in NZ and SL. But trying to present Tendulkar as just scoring against B attacks with a sprinkle of good ones is just false. Tendulkar just faced more ATGs than Lara.
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Let's debate. Lara played 131 series and 39 series let's look at the atg attacks he faced:

Pak '93 (h)
Aus '95 (h)
Aus '96 (a)
Pak '97 (a)
Rsa '98 (a)
Aus '99 (h)
Aus '00 (a)
Rsa '01 (h)
Aus '03 (h)** 2 tests
Aus '05 (a)

SL with Vaas and Murali borderline especially in SL. 9/39.

Sachin:

Pak '89 (a)
Rsa '96 (h)
Rsa '96 (a)
WI '97 (h)
Pak '99 (h)
Aus 99 (a)
Rsa '00 (h)
Aus '01 (h)
Aus '04 (h)
Pak '06 (a)

South african and SL attacks with Morkel/Steyn and Vaas/Murali borderline. So 10/74. Yeah he played more atg attacks but Lara played them more often and in a higher proportion imo.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
Slifer said:
Let's debate. Lara played 131 series and 39 series let's look at the atg attacks he faced:

Pak '93 (h)
Aus '95 (h)
Aus '96 (a)
Pak '97 (a)
Rsa '98 (a)
Aus '99 (h)
Aus '00 (a)
Rsa '01 (h)
Aus '03 (h)** 2 tests
Aus '05 (a)

SL with Vaas and Murali borderline especially in SL. 9/39.

Sachin:

Pak '89 (a)
Rsa '96 (h)
Rsa '96 (a)
WI '97 (h)
Pak '99 (h)
Aus 99 (a)
Rsa '00 (h)
Aus '01 (h)
Aus '04 (h)
Pak '06 (a)

South african and SL attacks with Morkel/Steyn and Vaas/Murali borderline. So 10/74. Yeah he played more atg attacks but Lara played them more often and in a higher proportion imo.
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Steyn was an ATG so we definitely include his series in 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2011. Tendulkar also played Donald in 92. Can include the Bond series and Murali series for both. Would include the Warne series for 97. Would argue Tendulkars series in Aus in 2007 also counts if we look at the form of Lee and Clark.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
Steyn was an ATG so we definitely include his series in 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2011. Tendulkar also played Donald in 92. Can include the Bond series and Murali series for both. Would include the Warne series for 97. Would argue Tendulkars series in Aus in 2007 also counts if we look at the form of Lee and Clark.
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Steyn + Morkel equal very good not an atg attack. And in 92 it was Donald and not much else. Warne 97 it was him and nothing else. Lee and Clarke and co were not an atg attack. I left out Murali and vaas for both but include them if you like. Point still stands, Sachin faced atg attacks more overall but Lara much more often.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
Steyn was an ATG so we definitely include his series in 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2011. Tendulkar also played Donald in 92. Can include the Bond series and Murali series for both. Would include the Warne series for 97. Would argue Tendulkars series in Aus in 2007 also counts if we look at the form of Lee and Clark.
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You can include all the Steyn series (I disagree) and and it's still 14 series out of 74. Still, he would've faced more great attacks but less often than Lara. Same applies if we just talk about great bowlers they faced.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
Slifer said:
You can include all the Steyn series (I disagree) and and it's still 14 series out of 74. Still, he would've faced more great attacks but less often than Lara. Same applies if we just talk about great bowlers they faced.
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Yeah we are going to disagree since I would include the Donald 92 and Warne 97 series since they both had ATG bowlers. And 2007 to me was a worldclass attack.

But mind you, my point was never overall to argue Lara had it easier than Sachin in terms of who they faced, I always assumed roughly equal in terms of entire career.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
Yeah we are going to disagree since I would include the Donald 92 and Warne 97 series since they both had ATG bowlers. And 2007 to me was a worldclass attack.

But mind you, my point was never overall to argue Lara had it easier than Sachin in terms of who they faced, I always assumed roughly equal in terms of entire career.
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Ok '97 in India besides Warne, who was the other atg bowler? 92 vs Rsa, besides Donald who was the other atg bowler? Go on...

Overall, imo Lara had it slightly harder. Why? He tended to face tough attacks more often and came in with next to nothing on the board. Sachin I'll give him credit for batting with the burden of billions of home fans....
 
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