Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
The Australian side has good pace bowlers and the NZ side none, so would be favourites unless it is a slow pitch where the NZ spinners and medium pacers could strangle them.
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
He was also not so good against NewZealand at home. So McGrath struggled at bit against South Africa and New Zealand in Australia.
Silver Silva
International Regular
Can you really say he struggled if he never lost a series against these teams ? More a case of other players getting the wickets in some games maybe.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
That wouldn't make his average suffer. You can be excellent and your team can still lose while you can be absolutely **** and your team still win. McGrath averages 31 vs SA at home (23 away) and 33 vs NZ (18 away). That's significant imo.
Silver Silva
International Regular
But didn't really cost the team in those games
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Australia as a Team was too Strong and McGrath had a great support from other bowlers and he had Shane Warne. It was too difficult for teams in those days to win a match and forget about winning a series. If one player doesn’t do well someone will step up and perform.
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Imran and Waqar wear too deadly on Pakistan Pitches.
srbhkshk
International Captain
Ganguly was neither a left armer, nor offered any pace. Although he was an okay 6/7th bowler for his time tbf.
I'll go with Shami but I agree with HB in that his numbers make him seem a lot better than Zaheer when they were closer in reality.
Overall -
Rohit
Sachin
Virat
Dravid/Sehwag/(KL???)
Yuvraj
MSD (+)(*)
Raina
Kapil
Kumble
Shami
Bumrah
I don't think we have a proper #4 for the ATG context (or a proper #8 if I push everyone starting Yuvraj one spot up.) Jadeja has pretty numbers and brings in balance, but to my eyes he was never a particularly impactful ODI player other than a short period in early 10s.
Also don't believe Kuldeep has enough pedigree yet to replace Kumble as the spinner, although he probably would at some point. The main trouble with the Indian side is that too many of our great batsman are openers and as such only one of Ganguly/Dhawan/Gambhir/Sehwag/Rohit/Dravid can really play in the proper postion.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Outside of WCs, they might be close; but in WCs Shami is the second best bowlers ever imo. And I think, WC>>>>>Bilaterals.
I would go:
Tendulkar
Rohit
Virat
Azhar
Yuvi
Dhoni
Kapil
Jadeja
Kumble
Shami
Bumrah
If not Azhar, then Ganguly at 3 and Kohli at 4 OR Yuvi and Dhoni gets pushed one place and Hardik at 6.
Last edited:
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
More to do with Warne performing, Australia being too strong overall, etc. Also, Australia did drew series with NZ when McGrath played, not sure we're they home though.
srbhkshk
International Captain
That may be true for Shami's career but it wasn't true for a large part of Zaheer's.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I grant that. I was just fanboying over how amazing Shami was especially in the last two World Cups (yet played in neither from the start....)
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
NZ had a clear plan against McGrath in 01/02 when we outplayed Australia in a 0-0 draw. We left really well outside off rather than nicking out. As a result he took 5 wickets in three tests @ 65.40. In the 3rd test at Perth 4 NZ batsmen scored 100s in the 1st innings.
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
2001 New Zealand Tour of Australia
2 Greatest Bowlers of All Time Hammered in their Home Grounds.
| B Lee (AUS) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 5 | 605 | 100.5 | 19 | 352 | 14 | 5/67 | 25.14 | 3.49 | 43.21 | 2 | 1 |
| DL Vettori (NZ) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 5 | 788 | 131.2 | 23 | 440 | 13 | 6/87 | 33.84 | 3.35 | 60.61 | 0 | 2 |
| JN Gillespie (AUS) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 5 | 670 | 111.4 | 27 | 316 | 11 | 3/45 | 28.72 | 2.82 | 60.90 | 0 | 0 |
| CL Cairns (NZ) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 5 | 648 | 108.0 | 19 | 455 | 10 | 5/146 | 45.50 | 4.21 | 64.80 | 0 | 1 |
| SK Warne (AUS) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 5 | 746 | 124.2 | 19 | 430 | 6 | 3/89 | 71.66 | 3.45 | 124.33 | 0 | 0 |
| GD McGrath (AUS) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 5 | 702 | 117.0 | 37 | 327 | 5 | 2/46 | 65.40 | 2.79 | 140.40 | 0 | 0 |
| CD McMillan (NZ) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 4 | 204 | 34.0 | 3 | 178 | 4 | 3/65 | 44.50 | 5.23 | 51.00 | 0 | 0 |
| SE Bond (NZ) | 2001-2001 | 2 | 3 | 402 | 67.0 | 5 | 289 | 3 | 1/74 | 96.33 | 4.31 | 134.00 | 0 | 0 |
| NJ Astle (NZ) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 4 | 270 | 45.0 | 13 | 108 | 2 | 1/30 | 54.00 | 2.40 | 135.00 | 0 | 0 |
| ME Waugh (AUS) | 2001-2001 | 3 | 3 | 84 | 14.0 | 2 | 64 | 1 | 1/30 | 64.00 | 4.57 | 84.00 | 0 | 0 |
| CS Martin (NZ) | 2001-2001 | 1 | 2 | 210 | 35.0 | 4 | 139 | 1 | 1/88 | 139.00 | 3.97 | 210.00 | 0 | 0 |
2 Greatest Bowlers of All Time Hammered in their Home Grounds.
Socerer 01
International Captain
Zaheer being rated the equivalent of Shami or better is pure nostalgia bias for that era of Indian cricket which i can sympathise with tbf since its a team and set of cricketers close to my heart and based on 2011’s result
had India won in 2023 this wouldnt even be a debate
had India won in 2023 this wouldnt even be a debate
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Shami, Bumrah and Kapil Dev has to be there in an all time ODI XI of India
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Nah I honestly think Zak is not a level below Shami and value his variety in terms of both being a left armer and his ability to bowl across phases of an ODI and wider experience across a variety of conditions, both atmospheric and playing rules, PLUS him being a much better fielder and a better batsman.
And I say this as someone who watched both their careers in full as an adult.
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
2015 World Cup
2019 World Cup
2023 World Cup
2003 World Cup
2007 World Cup
2011 World Cup
World Cup
Bowling
Batting
Shami did better bowling performance than Zaheer in 3 World Cups it clearly proves Shami is a well deserved bowler to be there in an all time India XI. Zaheer was also great but Bumrah and Shami have an edge.
| Mohammed Shami (IND) | 2015-2015 | 7 | 7 | 366 | 61.0 | 7 | 294 | 17 | 4/35 | 17.29 | 4.81 | 21.52 | 1 | 0 |
| JJ Bumrah (IND) | 2019-2019 | 9 | 9 | 504 | 84.0 | 9 | 371 | 18 | 4/55 | 20.61 | 4.41 | 28.00 | 1 | 0 |
| Mohammed Shami (IND) | 2019-2019 | 4 | 4 | 211 | 35.1 | 2 | 193 | 14 | 5/69 | 13.78 | 5.48 | 15.07 | 2 | 1 |
| Mohammed Shami (IND) | 2023-2023 | 7 | 7 | 293 | 48.5 | 4 | 257 | 24 | 7/57 | 10.70 | 5.26 | 12.20 | 1 | 3 |
| JJ Bumrah (IND) | 2023-2023 | 11 | 11 | 551 | 91.5 | 9 | 373 | 20 | 4/39 | 18.65 | 4.06 | 27.55 | 1 | 0 |
| Z Khan (IND) | 2003-2003 | 11 | 11 | 530 | 88.2 | 5 | 374 | 18 | 4/42 | 20.77 | 4.23 | 29.44 | 1 | 0 |
| Z Khan (IND) | 2007-2007 | 3 | 3 | 174 | 29.0 | 3 | 122 | 5 | 2/32 | 24.40 | 4.20 | 34.80 | 0 | 0 |
| Z Khan (IND) | 2011-2011 | 9 | 9 | 489 | 81.3 | 4 | 394 | 21 | 3/20 | 18.76 | 4.83 | 23.28 | 0 | 0 |
World Cup
Bowling
| Mohammed Shami (IND) | 2015-2023 | 18 | 18 | 870 | 145.0 | 13 | 744 | 55 | 7/57 | 13.52 | 5.13 | 15.81 | 4 | 4 |
| Z Khan (IND) | 2003-2011 | 23 | 23 | 1193 | 198.5 | 12 | 890 | 44 | 4/42 | 20.22 | 4.47 | 27.11 | 1 | 0 |
| JJ Bumrah (IND) | 2019-2023 | 20 | 20 | 1055 | 175.5 | 18 | 744 | 38 | 4/39 | 19.57 | 4.23 | 27.76 | 2 | 0 |
| A Kumble (IND) | 1996-2007 | 18 | 18 | 1039 | 173.1 | 5 | 708 | 31 | 4/32 | 22.83 | 4.08 | 33.51 | 1 | 0 |
| N Kapil Dev (IND) | 1979-1992 | 26 | 25 | 1422 | 237.0 | 27 | 892 | 28 | 5/43 | 31.85 | 3.76 | 50.78 | 0 | 1 |
| N Kapil Dev (IND) | 1979-1992 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 669 | 175* | 37.16 | 581 | 115.14 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 54+ | 14+ |
Shami did better bowling performance than Zaheer in 3 World Cups it clearly proves Shami is a well deserved bowler to be there in an all time India XI. Zaheer was also great but Bumrah and Shami have an edge.
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
India All Time ODI XI
1) Rohit Sharma
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) Sourav Ganguly
4) Virat Kohli
5) Yuvraj Singh
6) MS Dhoni+(c)
7) Kapil Dev
8) Ravindra Jadeja
9) Anil Kumble
10) Mohammed Shami
11) Jasprit Bumrah
This Team can defeat any All Time XI ODI Team
1) Rohit Sharma
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) Sourav Ganguly
4) Virat Kohli
5) Yuvraj Singh
6) MS Dhoni+(c)
7) Kapil Dev
8) Ravindra Jadeja
9) Anil Kumble
10) Mohammed Shami
11) Jasprit Bumrah
This Team can defeat any All Time XI ODI Team
Victor Ian
International Coach
As a member of the Shami appreciation society I am disgusted with the lack of appreciation being shown here.