The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[capt_Luffy]

Zak had all those maiden overs on a pancake wicket on a hot afternoon in the 2011 WC final, if you are going down that route.

Not really on Shami 2023 level, which arguably was the best performance by any bowler, by any route.

 

[honestbharani]

Not really on Shami 2023 level, which arguably was the best performance by any bowler, by any route.

we will agree to disagree. Shami was awesome but I dont think it is a level above Zak at all, esp. considering the PP rules and that era he bowled in. He also has great performance in the 2000 CT as well.

 

[CricAddict]

Get in all 4 of them.. Bumrah Shami Zaheer and Kapil..Yuvi Raina Sachin and Sehwag to be our spinners.

 

[CricAddict]

If the others are debatable, Shami over Zaheer really isn't, especially after the last WC. Sourav already offers some left arm pace, take the much better bowler.

You should've been born after 2000 I think. Zaheer vs Shami is really close. Zaheer led India's weak bowling line-up so well till that final in the 2003 world cup. And even before that, he was very good in ODIs. His yorkers were famous in the initial years.

 

[capt_Luffy]

we will agree to disagree. Shami was awesome but I dont think it is a level above Zak at all, esp. considering the PP rules and that era he bowled in. He also has great performance in the 2000 CT as well.

Shami: 101 matches, 195 wickets, avg 23.68, eco 5.55
Zaheer: 200 matches, 282 wickets, avg 29.43, eco 4.93 (in an easier bowling era)

In world cups:
Shami: 18 matches, 55 wickets, avg 13.53, eco 5.13, sr 15.8
Zaheer: 23 matches, 44 wickets, avg 20.22, eco 4.47, sr 27.1

Not really close imo, one would be in Top 30 ODI bowlers, the other will miss Top 60; but let's agree to disagree then.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You should've been born after 2000 I think. Zaheer vs Shami is really close. Zaheer led India's weak bowling line-up so well till that final in the 2003 world cup. And even before that, he was very good in ODIs. His yorkers were famous in the initial years.

*2003. I only remember snippets of the 2011 WC. I know Zaheer was brilliant in leading a weak bowling attack, but his numbers don't hold up for his era.

 

[honestbharani]

Shami: 101 matches, 195 wickets, avg 23.68, eco 5.55
Zaheer: 200 matches, 282 wickets, avg 29.43, eco 4.93 (in an easier bowling era)

In world cups:
Shami: 18 matches, 55 wickets, avg 13.53, eco 5.13, sr 15.8
Zaheer: 23 matches, 44 wickets, avg 20.22, eco 4.47, sr 27.1

Not really close imo, one would be in Top 30 ODI bowlers, the other will miss Top 60; but let's agree to disagree then.

Their WC records are not a level above or below each other. And the rest of their career ODIs were played under very diffferent contexts, so its really not a pointer of any difference in quality as far as I am concerned.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Blasphemy FP, although I notice many assume the same however he was born in Wellington, New Zealand.

Ha, sorry I knew that. My bad.
Early onset dementia perhaps setting in.

Skippy ahead of Munners at 3.

 

[Silver Silva]

SL ATG ODI XI

A side :
1.Sanath Jayasuriya (5)
2.Tillakaratne Dilshan (9)
3.Kumar Sangakkara (WK)
4.Aravinda De Silva (7)
5.Arjuna Ranatunga (C) (8)
6.Russell Arnold (10)
7.Angelo Mathews (6)
8.Thisara Perera ((4)
9.Chaminda Vaas (1)
10.Lasith Malinga (2)
11.Muttiah Muralitharan (3)

B side :

1.Mahela Jayawardene (C)
2.Pathum Nissanka
3.Kusal Mendis
4.Upul Tharanga
5.Charith Asalanka (6)
6.Kusal Perera (WK)
7.Farveez Maharoof (5)
8.Upul Chandana (4)
9.Nuwan Kulasekara (2)
10.Ajantha Mendis (3)
11.Dilhara Fernando (1)

 

[capt_Luffy]

Their WC records are not a level above or below each other. And the rest of their career ODIs were played under very diffferent contexts, so its really not a pointer of any difference in quality as far as I am concerned.

As far as I am concerned, Shami's WC record is easily 1 or 2 tiers above Zaheer; and with every bit context, Shami played in a much tougher bowlers' era than Zaheer, so don't think that's close as well.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I put Shami well ahead of Zaheer as an ODI bowler.

 

[capt_Luffy]

SL ATG ODI XI

A side :
1.Sanath Jayasuriya (5)
2.Tillakaratne Dilshan (9)
3.Kumar Sangakkara (WK)
4.Aravinda De Silva (7)
5.Arjuna Ranatunga (C) (8)
6.Russell Arnold (10)
7.Angelo Mathews (6)
8.Thisara Perera ((4)
9.Chaminda Vaas (1)
10.Lasith Malinga (2)
11.Muttiah Muralitharan (3)

B side :

1.Mahela Jayawardene (C)
2.Pathum Nissanka
3.Kusal Mendis
4.Upul Tharanga
5.Charith Asalanka (6)
6.Kusal Perera (WK)
7.Farveez Maharoof (5)
8.Upul Chandana (4)
9.Nuwan Kulasekara (2)
10.Ajantha Mendis (3)
11.Dilhara Fernando (1)

Only 3 proper bowlers in the first team?? Imo Mendis, Kulasekara Or Hasaranga makes the team ahead of Perera or Arnold? Also, No Hasaranga in either team?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Only 3 proper bowlers in the first team?? Imo Mendis, Kulasekara Or Hasaranga makes the team ahead of Perera or Arnold? Also, No Hasaranga in either team?

Or Maharoof

Arnold was a quality player and I guess the biggest weakness in SL ODI cricket has been the lack of big hitting finishers which is why Perera is picked.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Or Maharoof

Arnold was a quality player and I guess the biggest weakness in SL ODI cricket has been the lack of big hitting finishers which is why Perera is picked.

I get that, but then Mathews have to make way.... I don't think all those 3 together are a good fit, I would take any 2 of them.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Who is the Best Bowler at Home (Minimum 150+ Wickets)(Fast Bowlers)
James Anderson

In England

2003-2023

105

200

3794.2

1008

10634

434

7/42

11/71

24.50

2.80

52.4

24

3

Glenn McGrath

In Australia

1993-2007

66

131

2638.1

788

6483

289

8/24

10/27

22.43

2.45

54.7

11

2

Imran Khan

In Pakistan

1976-1992

38

59

7673

3131

163

8/58

14/116

19.20

2.44

47.0

10

3

Kapil Dev

In India

1978-1994

65

119

2035.1

467

5803

219

9/83

11/146

26.49

2.85

55.7

11

2

Richard Hadlee

In New Zealand

1973-1990

43

75

10663

4615

201

7/23

11/58

22.96

2.59

53.0

15

3

Chaminda Vaas

In Sri Lanka

1994-2009

56

102

1823.0

453

4739

180

7/71

14/191

26.32

2.59

60.7

5

1

Malcolm Marshall

In West Indies

1981-1991

31

58

1112.0

206

3150

157

7/80

11/89

20.06

2.83

42.4

8

2

Dale Steyn

In South Africa

2004-2019

52

99

1749.2

376

5643

261

6/8

11/60

21.62

3.22

40.2

16

3

Probably Imran, considering his home conditions, or Murali for his dominance. I would probably rank my Top 10 home bowlers as :

Murali
Imran
Marshall
Steyn
Hadlee
Ashwin
Lillee
Trueman
McGrath
Ambrose

 

[capt_Luffy]

comparing only fast bowlers bro.

Just remove the 2 spinners....

 

[CricketFan90s]

Probably Imran, considering his home conditions, or Murali for his dominance. I would probably rank my Top 10 home bowlers as :

Murali
Imran
Marshall
Steyn
Hadlee
Ashwin
Lillee
Trueman
McGrath
Ambrose

imran was amazing 19 average and 47 strike rate

 

[capt_Luffy]

imran was amazing 19 average and 47 strike rate

Imran was amazing at home, especially considering how flat the Pakistani pitches were.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Who is the Best Bowler at Home (Minimum 140+ Wickets)(Fast Bowlers)
James Anderson

In England

2003-2023

105

200

3794.2

1008

10634

434

7/42

11/71

24.50

2.80

52.4

24

3

Glenn McGrath

In Australia

1993-2007

66

131

2638.1

788

6483

289

8/24

10/27

22.43

2.45

54.7

11

2

Imran Khan

In Pakistan

1976-1992

38

59

7673

3131

163

8/58

14/116

19.20

2.44

47.0

10

3

Kapil Dev

In India

1978-1994

65

119

2035.1

467

5803

219

9/83

11/146

26.49

2.85

55.7

11

2

Richard Hadlee

In New Zealand

1973-1990

43

75

10663

4615

201

7/23

11/58

22.96

2.59

53.0

15

3

Chaminda Vaas

In Sri Lanka

1994-2009

56

102

1823.0

453

4739

180

7/71

14/191

26.32

2.59

60.7

5

1

Brian Statham

In England

1951-1965

37

70

8760

3370

148

7/39

11/97

22.77

2.30

59.1

7

1

Malcolm Marshall

In West Indies

1981-1991

31

58

1112.0

206

3150

157

7/80

11/89

20.06

2.83

42.4

8

2

Dale Steyn

In South Africa

2004-2019

52

99

1749.2

376

5643

261

6/8

11/60

21.62

3.22

40.2

16

3

Pat Cummins

In Australia

2017-2024

33

63

1117.2

269

2993

152

6/23

10/62

19.69

2.67

44.1

8

2

Waqar Younis

In Pakistan

1989-2002

33

60

1046.4

201

3288

162

7/76

13/135

20.29

3.14

38.7

11

3

Alec Bedser

In England

1946-1955

32

60

9700

3600

167

7/44

14/99

21.55

2.22

58.0

13

4

Wasim Akram

In Pakistan

1985-2001

41

70

1312.0

300

3423

154

6/48

10/106

22.22

2.60

51.1

8

1

Fred Trueman

In England

1952-1965

47

90

10295

4590

229

8/31

12/119

20.04

2.67

44.9

14

3

Dennis Lillee

In Australia

1971-1984

44

84

11534

5482

231

7/83

11/138

23.73

2.85

49.9

15

4

Curtly Ambrose

In West Indies

1988-2000

52

93

1887.3

540

4302

203

8/45

11/84

21.19

2.27

55.7

11

2

Courtney Walsh

In West Indies

1985-2001

58

105

2250.0

520

5428

229

6/54

10/101

23.70

2.41

58.9

8

1

Stuart Broad

In England

2008-2023

98

188

3329.5

740

10320

398

8/15

11/121

25.92

3.09

50.1

14

3

Shaun Pollock

In South Africa

1995-2008

59

109

2058.5

629

4955

235

6/30

10/147

21.08

2.40

52.5

9

1

Makhaya Ntini

In South Africa

1998-2009

53

103

1877.4

440

5986

249

6/59

10/145

24.04

3.18

45.2

12

2

Ian Botham

In England

1977-1992

59

96

12243

6226

226

8/34

11/140

27.54

3.05

54.1

17

2

Allan Donald

In South Africa

1992-2002

38

68

1328.0

331

3831

177

7/84

12/139

21.64

2.88

45.0

12

2

Bob Willis

In England

1973-1984

41

73

8121

4137

176

8/43

9/92

23.50

3.05

46.1

10

0

Vernon Philander

In South Africa

2011-2020

36

69

1068.0

299

2787

146

6/21

10/102

19.08

2.60

43.8

9

1

 

[Fuller Pilch]

imran was amazing 19 average and 47 strike rate

Miandad was never given LBW at home. How many LBWs did Imran get at home?