Virender Sehwag vs Clive Lloyd

[subshakerz]

This whole post is nonsensical fluff because you didn't even watch Lloyd bat so you aren't aware if he did have a handicap. You have no trouble nitpicking players records country by country but now when it shows there's little difference between them you care about some imaginary 'ability issue'.

Um, you aren't addressing the actual points I raised about their records though.

 

[BazBall21]

This whole post is nonsensical fluff because you didn't even watch Lloyd bat so you aren't aware if he did have a handicap. You have no trouble nitpicking players records country by country but now when it shows there's little difference between them you care about some imaginary 'ability issue'.

People just exposing their double standards here pretending Lloyd has a much better away record. He simply does not. Pretending they've gone through hours of Clive Lloyd batting footage to conclude he was a batsman with no handicap smh. Smoothbrained posting.

Think Lloyd is more accomplished across conditions. Has some very good knocks in England and was excellent in India&Australia.

Sehwag did alright in Australia and WI but the attacks he faced there weren't great. He struggled elsewhere outside Asia.

Both guys have very good credentials in the subcontinent (Sehwag in particular of course), but Lloyd is a lot more proven outside the SC I would say.

 

[subshakerz]

Think Lloyd is more accomplished across conditions. Has some very good knocks in England and was excellent in India&Australia.

Sehwag did alright in Australia and WI but the attacks he faced there weren't great. He struggled elsewhere outside Asia.

Both guys have very good credentials in the subcontinent (Sehwag in particular of course), but Lloyd is a lot more proven outside the SC I would say.

He is just annoyed that it's being pointed that giving fractions of countries you don't do well in isn't really a good argument.

 

[BazBall21]

Playing a high percentage of your matches in conditions that suit you makes you a more valuable player, but not necessarily a better one.

Yeah agree with that. Home records do broaden the sample size and can still convey quality in multiple different ways so I take a lot of notice in them. Accomplishments there aren't to be ignored. I actually think some instances of home dominance can go underappreciated.

But cross-conditions ability and credentials go further in conveying quality. And a batsman with a more complete resume is often better than someone who averaged more due to taking advantage of ideal home conditions. Hence Lloyd>Sehwag.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He is just annoyed that it's being pointed that giving fractions of countries you don't do well in isn't really a good argument.

Bro, doing that is your favourite hobby.

 

[h_hurricane]

Lloyd for me, as he nurtured Garner from a nothing bat to a world class willow holder.

 

[subshakerz]

Bro, doing that is your favourite hobby.

Not fractions.

 

[ma1978]

Why are people so obsessed with the “has to be good in all conditions” thing. It’s a pointless metric when you don’t play in all conditions equally. Isn’t it more valuable to be outstanding in the conditions you play in the most.

 

[Coronis]

Why are people so obsessed with the “has to be good in all conditions” thing. It’s a pointless metric when you don’t play in all conditions equally. Isn’t it more valuable to be outstanding in the conditions you play in the most.

Sehwag played equal tests home and away fwiw. Lloyd had a 40/60 home/away split.

Also given that test cricketers in general have significantly superior home records, quality away records are increasingly important for team success.

 

[Migara]

Shewag was the God of SC. But I'll take Lloyd.

 

[shortpitched713]

This just suggests that Barrington averaged what he did despite where he played his cricket. Sehwag averaged what he did because of where he played. I don't ignore what players did at home, but away is generally going to be a more accurate picture of quality.

There's other reasons not to rate Barrington, but he does go up in my mind based on away record.

This is not a good characterization at a time when there were fewer non minnow Test playing nations. English conditions even then were considered more challenging for batting (and easier for bowling) than Australian or West Indian conditions, where most of Barrington's away Tests were. He should be expected to perform better there than in England.

Barrington's record is still amazing, mind, but I think putting extra emphasis on away record shouldn't be the reason for that.

 

[Bolo.]

This is not a good characterization at a time when there were fewer non minnow Test playing nations. English conditions even then were considered more challenging for batting (and easier for bowling) than Australian or West Indian conditions, where most of Barrington's away Tests were. He should be expected to perform better there than in England.

Barrington's record is still amazing, mind, but I think putting extra emphasis on away record shouldn't be the reason for that.

It's not just as easy/hard conditions. Familiarity and suitability of players from both teams is a big factor. Its really common for players to do better at home, even when we think of conditions as tough.

Anyway, reasons not to take his away average at face value. Like longevity, softness of pitches and attacks. But I definitely rate him a bunch higher than if he'd got his career average by going big in easy home conditions with all else being equal.

 

[subshakerz]

Why are people so obsessed with the “has to be good in all conditions” thing. It’s a pointless metric when you don’t play in all conditions equally. Isn’t it more valuable to be outstanding in the conditions you play in the most.

Because succeeding in different conditions over a long period is the most difficult test in cricket.

You don't get extra points just for cashing in when it is easier for you and you are lucky to play more tests in.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think it’s probably fine to use away records to split players with similar averages. I don’t think a better away record should make up for a significantly worse average though.

 

[h_hurricane]

Shewag was the God of SC.

That would be Hewag. Shewag was the goddess.

 

[ma1978]

Because succeeding in different conditions over a long period is the most difficult test in cricket.

You don't get extra points just for cashing in when it is easier for you and you are lucky to play more tests in.

what;s the point in passing a test when you barely use the subject matter

 

[subshakerz]

what;s the point in passing a test when you barely use the subject matter

Nobody considers someone who just passes easy tests in one subject as smart as someone who passes harder tests in different subjects.

 

[J_C]

Not a big difference in their overall away stats against Test standard sides with Lloyd averaging 46+ in the MO compared to Sehwag averaging 45+ as an opener for the most part.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Sehwag undoubtedly a lot more successful against the ATG bowlers of his era compared to Lloyd though .

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[h_hurricane]

Nobody considers someone who just passes easy tests in one subject as smart as someone who passes harder tests in different subjects.

Sehwag did pass some of the hardest tests you could imagine. It is just that he did them in the comfort of his home and familiar neighborhood (in the presence of invigilators of course). Some of the others had to travel to the examination center to do it.

 

[subshakerz]

Not a big difference in their overall away stats against Test standard sides with Lloyd averaging 46+ in the MO compared to Sehwag averaging 45+ as an opener for the most part.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Sehwag undoubtedly a lot more successful against the ATG bowlers of his era compared to Lloyd though .

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Just looking at round away averages is misleading.

And Sehwag is only successful against the best bowlers in the SC.