The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[kyear2]

If Sutcliffe and Boycott open together, it would be a very slow partnership. Have to think about the scoring rate as well.

Kinda have to agree with that.

 

[capt_Luffy]

England's middle order is weaker and lacks pace outside of Trueman. Australia has none of those weaknesses.

Bradman, Smith, Chappell, Border is more than good enough. Imo of course.

Exactly why they need someone better than Botham....

 

[kyear2]

And Macartney is seriously your next choice? Bloke averages 35 as an opener with half his runs in 1/9 innings, and 70% of his runs in the one match.

And this as well.

 

[Prince EWS]

England's middle order is weaker and lacks pace outside of Trueman. Australia has none of those weaknesses.

Bradman, Smith, Chappell, Border is more than good enough. Imo of course.

Bradman and Gilchrist make it much more viable for Australia to pick a #6 who doesn't make it on batting alone than England. Hammond is a more serious than fifth bowling option than Chappell too. I think England need the specialist batting in that spot a lot more than Australia do.

I also think Miller is just much better than Botham in general.

 

[kyear2]

Bradman - Chappell - Smith - Miller

Weakens the batting to a significant degree with very diminished returns as a 5th bowler.

Math isn't mathing.

 

[kyear2]

Bradman and Gilchrist make it much more viable for Australia to pick a #6 who doesn't make it on batting alone than England. Hammond is a more serious than fifth bowling option than Chappell too. I think England need the specialist batting in that spot a lot more than Australia do.

I also think Miller is just much better than Botham in general.

Australia has Chappell, Simpson and Border to share the 5th bowling role. Which with Lillee, McGrath and Warne capable.of bowling long spells, would be quite limited in scope.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Weakens the batting to a significant degree with very diminished returns as a 5th bowler.

Math isn't mathing.

It's mathing time!! Australia can afford Miller at 6 because they have Gilly at 7, and then there is Lindwall at 8 and Bradman up the order. England can afford that imo.

 

[kyear2]

It's mathing time!! Australia can afford Miller at 6 because they have Gilly at 7, and then there is Lindwall at 8 and Bradman up the order. England can afford that imo.

Simpson
Hayden
Bradman
Smith
Chappell

Hayden isn't ATG territory, so that's a potential weakness already. Simpson is world-class, but again not competing with England's guys and he makes the team for his all round game and Australia's weakness in the position.

As great as Bradman was he's still worth one dismissal and Gilchrist's advantage is finished if he's counted on to make up for the lack of a specialist bat.

There's such a minimum advantage to be gained by Miller compared to the risk that's being opened up that it doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Simpson
Hayden
Bradman
Smith
Chappell

Hayden isn't ATG territory, so that's a potential weakness already. Simpson is world-class, but again not competing with England's guys and he makes the team for his all round game and Australia's weakness in the position.

As great as Bradman was he's still worth one dismissal and Gilchrist's advantage is finished if he's counted on to make up for the lack of a specialist bat.

There's such a minimum advantage to be gained by Miller compared to the risk that's being opened up that it doesn't make any sense to me.

Trumper for Hayden, simple. He is close to the English guys for me. 5 specialists including Don, Gilly, Miller and Lindwall sounds reasonable to me. Might also add Davidson for Lillee.

 

[kyear2]

Trumper for Hayden, simple. He is close to the English guys for me. 5 specialists including Don, Gilly, Miller and Lindwall sounds reasonable to me. Might also add Davidson for Lillee.

Trumper really isn't.

And to compound matters, then let's weaken the bowling to shore up the lower order batting is insane.

And why, to fit in an all-rounder who can't make the team as a batsman or a bowler.

This all rounder craze is really going too far.
The beauty about Sobers is that it doesn't require any sacrifices. I all of any scenarios he's one of the top 4 middle.order batsmen available, the best and most versatile reserve bowler and also most likely your best option at 2nd slip.
To force Miller into that situation just doesn't add up because he's not going to be blowing enough to make it viable, while throwing off the team balance.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Trumper really isn't.

And to compound matters, then let's weaken the bowling to shore up the lower order batting is insane.

And why, to fit in an all-rounder who can't make the team as a batsman or a bowler.

This all rounder craze is really going too far.
The beauty about Sobers is that it doesn't require any sacrifices. I all of any scenarios he's one of the top 4 middle.order batsmen available, the best and most versatile reserve bowler and also most likely your best option at 2nd slip.
To force Miller into that situation just doesn't add up because he's not going to be blowing enough to make it viable, while throwing off the team balance.

I think Miller fits the team perfectly. Davidson isn't a bowling downgrade much, and you have now convinced me to have in my ATG Australia team ahead of Lillee. Trumper is the 3rd best Aussie bat imo. I think a lot is to unpack here. Let's disagree then.

 

[kyear2]

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist
Davidson / Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Gilly was the cheat code because he came on top of everything else Australia had, not supplementing a weakness.
Chappell, Border and Simpson taking up the 5th bowling duties and you have your best attack being directed by Australia's best captain in Border. Border was also the only one really tested by the '80's WI attacks, so having him there at 6 potentially assist with that potential disaster.

 

[kyear2]

I think Miller fits the team perfectly. Davidson isn't a bowling downgrade much, and you have now convinced me to have in my ATG Australia team ahead of Lillee. Trumper is the 3rd best Aussie bat imo. I think a lot is to unpack here. Let's disagree then.

Lillee is the only pace and aggression in the team and the one willing and capable.of long spells.
There's no one who believes that Trumper is Australia's 3rd best bat, the same way no one else believes than Ranji makes an England XI.
I would take a peek though as to where they ranked in our batsmen poll.

So by taking out Lillee, you're weakening the new ball attack to strengthen the 5th bowling option while also weakening the batting. But we're covering that by "batting deep"

That doesn't sound insane to anyone else? All that just to cover an inclusion that doesn't need to be made in the first place. The domino effect is impactful and unnecessary.

 

[ataraxia]

England's middle order is weaker and lacks pace outside of Trueman. Australia has none of those weaknesses.

Bradman, Smith, Chappell, Border is more than good enough. Imo of course.

That your answer to this problem is to put a #8 (at ATG level) at #6 is amazing.

 

[Line and Length]

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist
Davidson / Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Gilly was the cheat code because he came on top of everything else Australia had, not supplementing a weakness.
Chappell, Border and Simpson taking up the 5th bowling duties and you have your best attack being directed by Australia's best captain in Border. Border was also the only one really tested by the '80's WI attacks, so having him there at 6 potentially assist with that potential disaster.

Lindwall ahead of Davidson/Cummings

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lillee is the only pace and aggression in the team and the one willing and capable.of long spells.
There's no one who believes that Trumper is Australia's 3rd best bat, the same way no one else believes than Ranji makes an England XI.
I would take a peek though as to where they ranked in our batsmen poll.

So by taking out Lillee, you're weakening the new ball attack to strengthen the 5th bowling option while also weakening the batting. But we're covering that by "batting deep"

That doesn't sound insane to anyone else? All that just to cover an inclusion that doesn't need to be made in the first place. The domino effect is impactful and unnecessary.

As I said, I disagree. To begin with I don't think Davidson is a downgrade on Lillee bowling wise. Lindwall is fast aggressive enough as is Miller, so might as well go with a lefty.
And oh, if someone believes Ranji shouldn't make English AT XI, yet simultaneously thinking Barry is automatic choice for SA, then I will strongly disagree with them.

 

[Qlder]

Dream Ashes Series Who Will Win ? (Only included Players Younger than Don Bradman)

England XI
1) Len Hutton (c)
2) Alastair Cook
3) David Gower
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Joe Root
6) Ben Stokes
7) Ian Botham
8) Alan Knott +
9) Graeme Swann
10) Fred Trueman
11) James Anderson

Willis, Statham and Underwood for Stokes, Swann and Anderson. Botham and Knott bat 6-7

 

[capt_Luffy]

Dream Ashes Series Who Will Win ?
(Only included Players Younger than Don Bradman)
Australia XI
1) Bob Simpson
2) Matthew Hayden
3) Ricky Ponting (c)
4) Steve Smith
5) Greg Chappell
6) Allan Border
7) Adam Gilchrist +
8) Shane Warne
9) Pat Cummins
10) Dennis Lillee
11) Glenn McGrath

England XI
1) Len Hutton (c)
2) Alastair Cook
3) David Gower
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Joe Root
6) Ben Stokes
7) Ian Botham
8) Alan Knott +
9) Graeme Swann
10) Fred Trueman
11) James Anderson

Too many changes in English one. Rather have Boycott than Cook; Compton, May or Barrington for Gower and Pietersen, Laker in place of Swann.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Willis, Statham and Underwood for Stokes, Swann and Anderson. Botham and Knott bat 6-7

i want stokes and botham in the team. Underwood is a better choice agree with you.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Too many changes in English one. Rather have Boycott than Cook; Compton, May or Barrington for Gower and Pietersen, Laker in place of Swann.

why do you want to overload the team with old players. Cook is a fine opener and avoided taking players who were too much defensive like Boycott and Barrington.