Sachin Tendulkar vs Malcolm Marshall

[capt_Luffy]

Only on CW is he considered an ATG.

Might be. But look at his record and Lillee's, and forget the Aussie-English generated hype (especially English, those guys hyped Beckham like he was second coming of Pele); and tell me he is worse than him.

 

[Slifer]

Then fair enough. But like, then you have what like 10 ATG bowlers??

My atg fast bowlers are:

Lillee and Glenn
Malcolm and Curtly
Steyn and Donald
Hadlee
Trueman
Imran and Akram

Barnes as far as I can tell isn't a fast bowler. Others have suggested tiers for atg so if that's a thing, the above are in the top tier with the below tier being players like:

Davidson, Lindwall
Holding, Garner
Waqar
Pollock S.

I'm probably forgetting a few others but you get the gist.

 

[Slifer]

Marshall/McGrath/Hadlee roughly equal Sachin/Hobbs/Sobers. Note that this is only on primary skill because as overall cricketers it's Sobers then Hadlee then the other 4.

 

[capt_Luffy]

My atg fast bowlers are:

Lillee and Glenn
Malcolm and Curtly
Steyn and Donald
Hadlee
Trueman
Imran and Akram

Barnes as far as I can tell isn't a fast bowler. Others have suggested tiers for atg so if that's a thing, the above are in the top tier with the below tier being players like:

Davidson, Lindwall
Holding, Garner
Waqar
Pollock S.

I'm probably forgetting a few others but you get the gist.

I don't think there is much between Lillee, who was ATG against only one country in a time resembling the modern landscape; and Trueman, who was so constantly dropped that he missed around half the matches from his debut till retirement not generally for injuries and was considered a home bully; with Garner, whose only blemish was playing in an extremely strong lineup and not exactly being a leading bowler. But we can disagree on that.

 

[Slifer]

I don't think there is much between Lillee, who was ATG against only one country in a time resembling the modern landscape; and Trueman, who was so constantly dropped that he missed around half the matches from his debut till retirement not generally for injuries and was considered a home bully; with Garner, whose only blemish was playing in an extremely strong lineup and not exactly being a leading bowler. But we can disagree on that.

In terms of ability as a fast bowler, someone like a Garner is as good as anyone in the history of the game. But atg is that and impact and peer ratings etc.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think there is much between Lillee, who was ATG against only one country in a time resembling the modern landscape; and Trueman, who was so constantly dropped that he missed around half the matches from his debut till retirement not generally for injuries and was considered a home bully; with Garner, whose only blemish was playing in an extremely strong lineup and not exactly being a leading bowler. But we can disagree on that.

I think as a basic output requirement you need 300 wickets as a modern fast bowler to be an ATG.

 

[kyear2]

I also think there would be a decent number of posters who would rate Marshall ahead of Sobers too. So yeah Marshall needs to be taken down a notch.

You're always with this ****.

You're literally the only one who think they need to take people down a notch, and it's always the same theme and motives.

 

[kyear2]

Marshall/McGrath/Hadlee roughly equal Sachin/Hobbs/Sobers. Note that this is only on primary skill because as overall cricketers it's Sobers then Hadlee then the other 4.

And literally along with Bradman, that's my undisputed top 7 top cricketers.

Viv, Steyn and possibly the two spinners on the primary skill periphery, but they, and especially the spinners just have that glaring hole that makes it harder for me to put them in.

But Viv and Steyn are right there.

 

[subshakerz]

You're always with this ****.

You're literally the only one who think they need to take people down a notch, and it's always the same theme and motives.

Um, yeah, aren't we on this board to try to discuss and influence each other? Nothing nefarious.

And literally along with Bradman, that's my undisputed top 7 top cricketers.

Viv, Steyn and possibly the two spinners on the primary skill periphery, but they, and especially the spinners just have that glaring hole that makes it harder for me to put them in.

But Viv and Steyn are right there.

Everyone is entitled to be wrong.

 

[kyear2]

I don't think there is much between Lillee, who was ATG against only one country in a time resembling the modern landscape; and Trueman, who was so constantly dropped that he missed around half the matches from his debut till retirement not generally for injuries and was considered a home bully; with Garner, whose only blemish was playing in an extremely strong lineup and not exactly being a leading bowler. But we can disagree on that.

Yeah agree, Trueman, Lillee, Garner, Holding all kinda similar.

 

[kyear2]

Um, yeah, aren't we on this board to try to discuss and influence each other? Nothing nefarious.



Everyone is entitled to be wrong.

Yes you are.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Waqar, Holding, Garner, and Lindwall are definitely ATGs for me

Anderson, Pollock, and Walsh arguably ATGs

 

[_00_deathscar]

Not only disagree with, but is absolute nonsense. In '78 the entire team was away playing WSC, and Marshall after not even a season of FC cricket (1 match I recall) and in what was noting better than an A team had to go up against India, and that counts towards his figures against Gavaskar?

I see objectivity has left the chat.

So when he didn’t have the greatest bowling support of all time he couldn’t do anything against Sunny?
These checklist wars are silly

 

[_00_deathscar]

This is the broken nose match saving fifty at Sialkot at age 16.

Look at the guy's face. He's barely hit puberty imo.

View attachment 40138

He still hasn’t if you just look at his face

 

[_00_deathscar]

Those helmets without the grill were so useless.

Weren’t they a thing for a while cos it was believed the grills would affect vision and lead to more injuries?

 

[ma1978]

“I’m going to find exceptions and create context for my guy and ignore context altogether for the other guy”

 

[Coronis]

Those helmets without the grill were so useless.

We should inform the MLB

 

[Slifer]

I think an average of 22.5 is more similar to 50; 24 is more like 45 to me; which Tendulkar also has everywhere but Pakistan; where he also has that on removing his debut series at 16 vs Waqar, Wasim, Imran and Qadir (the player's peaks didn't coincidence, or I would say that it probably was the best on paper attack alongside the quartet; and if we aren't counting Marshall's 78 India tour, without which it rises to overall 24 in India, it's only fair we do the same for Sachin.)

I disagree and here's why. Lillee, Imran, Wasim, Steyn all average over 22.5. We all consider each to be atg. And even using perspective or era or whatever, lillee, Imran and Wasim were near contemporaries or Malcolm ie they played under similar conditions. Interestingly enough, Marshall's overall average vs all teams is 22.5 or lower. So even if we used this cut off, we can say he roughly averages 50+ vs all teams (zero minnows). Amazing consistency!!

 

[capt_Luffy]

I disagree and here's why. Lillee, Imran, Wasim, Steyn all average over 22.5. We all consider each to be atg. And even using perspective or era or whatever, lillee, Imran and Wasim were near contemporaries or Malcolm ie they played under similar conditions. Interestingly enough, Marshall's overall average vs all teams is 22.5 or lower. So even if we used this cut off, we can say he roughly averages 50+ vs all teams (zero minnows). Amazing consistency!!

Never disagreed. Marshall had mind boggling consistency against every team. As for the average thing, Idk; 24 also feels kinda high to be 50. I don't think we could directly compare the two, Warne averages over 25 but is still an ATG.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Never disagreed. Marshall had mind boggling consistency against every team. As for the average thing, Idk; 24 also feels kinda high to be 50.

It depends on deeper context, rather than generalisation, I guess. Marshall was better at home than SRT was in Ind, Marshall was a better bowler in Eng than Sachin was a batter there. Marshall was better in Ind, than Sachin in WI. Sachin was better in Aus, and Marshall better in Pak(cause Sachin only proved himself on flat tracks there mostly). Sachin was better in NZ, but Marshall only played 3 matches there, and Tendulkar didn’t face much great bowling. Basically where there is an overlap, Marshall is generally better.