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New Zealand odi team of the 90s, should've been world beators?

Jumno

First Class Debutant
With a line up of:

Astle
Spearman
Twose
Fleming
McMillan
Cairns
Harris
Parore/Germon
Nash
Allot
Doull

Horne
Larson
Morrison
D Patel
Hart
Young

Powerful batting line up, dynamic batting and formidable bowling options.

They made 288 in the QF 96 WC, semi final of the 99 and 92 WC.
 
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SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Won the Champions Trophy in 2000, so that is some form of silverware.

Incidentally, you listed Craig Spearman who averaged 18 opening the batting in ODIs :laugh:

And only one of those guys in the XI you listed (Harris) played in 92.
 

Jumno

First Class Debutant
Maybe swap Spearman for Horne.

I was generally talking about the whole of the 90s.

New Zealand did get something in the icc knockout trophy win 2000 as your mentioned.
 
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Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
NZ were a decent team in the late 90's, but I feel their performance in the 99 World Cup reflected their ceiling - a distant fourth behind Aus, SA and Pakistan.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
TJB is right for once. It's an alright team at best. A bit of flair, a hefty dose of mediocrity and mostly just okay.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Maybe swap Spearman for Horne.
Hornet averaged 20 :laugh:

Seriously, how hilarious is that - there's guys we're throwing up, regular top order players for NZ, who played 50 ODIs, and averaged less than Kyle Jamieson does with the bat.

Craig McMillan was on another level too, played 197 ODIs and averaged 28. Chris Cairns, 215 ODIs for an average of 29. Parore, 179 games at 25s. Lee Germon, 37 games at 19s. Dion Nash, an 'all-rounder' who averaged 15. Barry Young, 74 matches at 24s. Dipak, 74 matches at 11s (was a top order player in county cricket).

Incredible how low the bar was back then for guys who were mainstays of the side.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Hornet averaged 20 :laugh:

Seriously, how hilarious is that - there's guys we're throwing up, regular top order players for NZ, who played 50 ODIs, and averaged less than Kyle Jamieson does with the bat.

Craig McMillan was on another level too, played 197 ODIs and averaged 28. Chris Cairns, 215 ODIs for an average of 29. Parore, 179 games at 25s. Lee Germon, 37 games at 19s. Dion Nash, an 'all-rounder' who averaged 15. Barry Young, 74 matches at 24s. Dipak, 74 matches at 11s (was a top order player in county cricket).

Incredible how low the bar was back then for guys who were mainstays of the side.
90s/00s NZ top order bats were peak comedy

Absolute hacks batting top 3 and then bowling all-rounders doing the the engine room job at 7-9
 

Socerer 01

International Captain
Hornet averaged 20 :laugh:

Seriously, how hilarious is that - there's guys we're throwing up, regular top order players for NZ, who played 50 ODIs, and averaged less than Kyle Jamieson does with the bat.

Craig McMillan was on another level too, played 197 ODIs and averaged 28. Chris Cairns, 215 ODIs for an average of 29. Parore, 179 games at 25s. Lee Germon, 37 games at 19s. Dion Nash, an 'all-rounder' who averaged 15. Barry Young, 74 matches at 24s. Dipak, 74 matches at 11s (was a top order player in county cricket).

Incredible how low the bar was back then for guys who were mainstays of the side.
idk if Cairns belongs there, for someone who flitted between 5 and 6 an avg of 29 is about par since the avg avg for those positions together is 28 in the 90s and he was a valuable bowler as well

the rest sound like junk
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
With a line up of:

Astle
Spearman
Twose
Fleming
McMillan
Cairns
Harris
Parore/Germon
Nash
Allot
Doull

Horne
Larson
Morrison
D Patel
Hart
Young

Powerful batting line up, dynamic batting and formidable bowling options.

They made 288 in the QF 96 WC, semi final of the 99 and 92 WC.
Our fielding was genuinely good (possibly even better than that ATG Sri Lankan fielding unit), tail end batting really good, bowling pretty good (although our 2 best ODI bowlers of the 90s were Larsen - not in XI and Pringle - not in squad) and batting poor apart from Astle and Twose.

We were much better from 2000-2008 and 2013 on.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
The players named on the face of it look like core NZ players from the late 90s (though a few early-90s mixed in), but while some were actually good ODI players - Astle, Twose, Fleming, Cairns, Harris, Larson - some very much were not.

Spearman has been mentioned, while other openers Horne and Young were passable at best. Nash and Doull both averaged over 40 in brief ODI careers; they were both more test bowlers. Parore only averaged 25.6 with the bat. Allott was great for a very brief period only.

The point I'm really dying to get to though, is that McMillan sucked at ODIs. Oh man, he was godawful. This was my core early 2000s cricketing bugbear. Somehow it escaped everyone's notice at the time, they looked at the NZ side, saw McMillan among a bunch of other Cantabrians and assumed he belonged. He did not.
His ODI batting record to the end of 2000 was 71 matches, 1425 runs @ 22.6 :blink:
Those are Khaled Mashud levels. In a key middle order spot.

Will pause briefly to acknowledge McMillan was a better test than ODI batsman, that he was only 23 in the 99 World Cup (scored 153 @ 17), he surely should not have been a fixture in the side from such a young age, and I don't mind him now as a relaxed vibes-type commentator.

But I can still barely believe he was an automatic pick in the NZ ODI team from 1997 to 2007. And then ironically, retired in 2007 at age 30 when he was playing the best ODI cricket he ever had, to go play in the ICL. ODI career tally of 197 matches, 4707 runs @ 28.2 - can adjust for eras all we want but that is not good. Was a good example of the fallacy that hitting the ball hard to the boundary makes you a good ODI player, even if you can't find gaps in the infield or rotate the strike.

Overall the late 90s team was good, though with a few too many weak links. I'd say they performed at about their level.
 
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