Best Attack

[PlayerComparisons]

lol what?

The point is Shamar for example gives them a decent chance away whereas before they had slim to none. What are you not getting about this?

Well yeah WI with Shamar > Wi with no Shamar obviously

 

[Coronis]

Well yeah WI with Shamar > Wi with no Shamar obviously

Jesus christ. Seems like you’re being intentionally obtuse.

Looking at the Windies specifically, they have decent-strong bowling at home and weak bowling away. You add a Shamar Joseph into this team. Is it more valuable for him to average 20 at home and 26 away or 23 at home and 23 away? Seriously its not that hard to grasp.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Jesus christ. Seems like you’re being intentionally obtuse.

Looking at the Windies specifically, they have decent-strong bowling at home and weak bowling away. You add a Shamar Joseph into this team. Is it more valuable for him to average 20 at home and 26 away or 23 at home and 23 away? Seriously its not that hard to grasp.

Depends on which team they’re up against. If they don’t have a problem winning at home, then yea I agree performing away is more important. A team like Sri Lanka would definitely benefit more from a HTB since they struggle to win home series these days.

Anyways let’s just agree to disagree. This isn’t really relavent to Imran.

 

[Coronis]

Depends on which team they’re up against. If they don’t have a problem winning at home, then yea I agree performing away is more important. A team like Sri Lanka would definitely benefit more from a HTB since they struggle to win home series these days.

Anyways let’s just agree to disagree. This isn’t really relavent to Imran.

Considering we’re talking about Imran’s home vs away it is relevant.

Considering the whole premise was that in general teams are better and more capable at home its relevant.

Considering you brought up Shamar and the Windies its relevant.

 

[subshakerz]

It's hilarious actually.

You always mention his prime when I mention the career, I didn't call England a blemish, I asked where are the sub 20 to 22 averages in and against said countries.

In his career vs and against every single country he played. Total and Away

Australia - 24.95 - 28.51
England - 24.63
India - 24.04 - 28.03
New Zealand - 28.19 - 26.64
Pakistan - 19.20
Sri Lanka - 14.73 - 18.00
West Indies - 21.18 - 25.12

He wasn't constantly great away from home, yes he had good series, but all the greats had them, and he's an undisputed ATG. If we take away rheb'71 series as we should, his numbers in England improve, but are those the away numbers one would expect from a top 5 bowlers of all time.

But compare those numbers to what Marshall did.

You didn't address any of my points. My comment was specifically on Imran in WI vs McGrath in SA and what you consider 'ATG standards'. And your refusal to compare Imran to Steyn away.

I already concede Marshall as a better bowler overall and you know that, you master deflector.

 

[subshakerz]

Except Imran didn’t really have a problem bowling on flat pitches or in any conditions which you can tell by watching him bowl. Having a balanced home/away split looks good on statsguru but doesn’t tell us anything useful for the ATGs most of the time.

Disagree on performing away helping your team more. That depends on the strength of your team.

This. Looking at a round away average is one of the most misleading stats used on CW.

 

[subshakerz]

Now if you think Imran is a hair behind the top 3, then sure, it makes sense, I don't however, and don't know why I'm not allowed to have that opinion.

Most of CW agrees with you but we don't have an issue with them. We have an issue with your criteria which is full of holes so stop playing the victim.

 

[kyear2]

Was actually watching this the other day. The great bowlers, batsmen know what was coming but that away swinger taking the stumps or being swallowed by Boucher or by Kallis/Smith in the slips or whoever was a glorious sight. Almost on repeat. Swing-bowling at high pace. Particularly away from the bat. Hope we get another somewhere in the world again that is close.

Dale Steyn all test wickets.mp4

drive.google.com

Thanks for this, it's amazing, as was Steyn.

Side note, Kallis though, damn.

 

[Coronis]

Whats more important and valuable? Being able to succeed in conditions where the rest of the team also succeeds or being able to succeed in conditions where the rest of the team is unable to succeed?

 

[smash84]

Considering we’re talking about Imran’s home vs away it is relevant.

It would be relevant if Imran wasn't performing very well. The 2 series he played in the 1980s in England, he was the Man of the Series and had the best bowling average in both (cbf checking the 1987 series stats)

 

[PlayerComparisons]

yea imran was an all conditions bowler like all ATGs so not really sure why his home/away split is so important here

 

[Coronis]

It would be relevant if Imran wasn't performing very well. The 2 series he played in the 1980s in England, he was the Man of the Series and had the best bowling average in both (cbf checking the 1987 series stats)

As I said yeah I don’t think his away record is bad persay and its not specifically about him, but the dicussion originated re: importance of away vs home averages in general. Like I said I would argue that (bowling alongside Qadir as he did) (and for a player with an average team) your away performances would be more valuable than the home ones.

 

[subshakerz]

Whats more important and valuable? Being able to succeed in conditions where the rest of the team also succeeds or being able to succeed in conditions where the rest of the team is unable to succeed?

The latter.

As I said yeah I don’t think his away record is bad persay and its not specifically about him, but the dicussion originated re: importance of away vs home averages in general. Like I said I would argue that (bowling alongside Qadir as he did) your away performances would be more valuable than the home ones.

This downplays the difficulty of succeeding in his flat pitch home conditions. Like Kallis gets credit for averaging 56 at home.

 

[Coronis]

The latter.

Well now if @PlayerComparisons can just admit to that…

 

[smash84]

As I said yeah I don’t think his away record is bad persay and its not specifically about him, but the dicussion originated re: importance of away vs home averages in general. Like I said I would argue that (bowling alongside Qadir as he did) (and for a player with an average team) your away performances would be more valuable than the home ones.

if you play more matches at home then shouldn't your home performances be more valuable?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Well now if @PlayerComparisons can just admit to that…

I think it depends on your team but yea we can agree on that in general

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Sri Lanka haven’t won any of their last home series against Ind/Eng/Aus/NZ/Pak. I’m pretty sure they would benefit more from a HTB than a ATB.

 

[Coronis]

Sri Lanka haven’t won any of their last home series against Ind/Eng/Aus/NZ/Pak. I’m pretty sure they would benefit more from a HTB than a ATB.

As I said multiple times, I was talking about players and teams in general, and in general teams and players are better at home.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

As I said multiple times, I was talking about players and teams in general, and in general teams and players are better at home.

Fair enough.

Another example is England drawing against Aus and Ind at home and getting destroyed away. They’d much rather have a HTB in those cases.

 

[kyear2]

Don't forget the hilarious contradiction in having Sobers as better than Bradman but Imran barely making the top 10, if at all.

Honestly consider it, but Bradman is still first.

But since 8th bowler plus batting skills jumps to 3rd overall.

What's wrong with 3rd best bat batsman, most versatile bowler and elite slip fielder jumping to no. 1?

Imran is like Donald and Hooper rolled into 1

Sobers is like Smith, Ishant and Waugh jr rolled into 1.
(Please don't take too literally, just comps off the top of my head for fun)