The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[capt_Luffy]

Here were the 1st and 2nd XIs voted on in 2018

Zimbabwe XI

1 G Flower
2 H Masakadza
3 M Goodwin
4 A Flower
5 D Houghton
6 G Whittall
7 T Taibu+
8 P Strang
9 H Streak
10 E Brandes
11 K Jarvis


Zimbabwe A XI

1 A Campbell
2 K Arnott
3 S Carlisle
4 C Ervine
5 B Taylor+
6 N Johnson
7 S Ervine
8 A Blignaut
9 R Price
10 D Brain
11 H Olonga

No Sean Williams or Sikander Raza??

 

[Jarquis]

No Sean Williams or Sikander Raza??

Zimbabwe B XI
1 T Gripper
2 D Ebrahim
3 S Raza
4 A Pycroft
5 S Williams
6 M Vermeulen
7 R Chakabva+
8 T Friend
9 J Traicos*
10 M Jarvis
11 P Mbangwa

Zimbabwe C XI
1 G Rennie
2 T Mawoyo
3 V Sibanda
4 C Wishart
5 D Marillier
6 E Chigumbura
7 W James+
8 G Cremer
9 T Panyangara
10 B Strang
11 T Chatara

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hamilton Masakadza, Guy Whittall and Paul Strang on an ATG XI is wild

Edit: that Zimbabwe A XI has some much better players lol

 

[_00_deathscar]

How would you guys rank the countries by ATG XI?

Australia, West Indies, South Africa, England, Pakistan, India, New Zealand, Sri Lanka sound good?

South Africa and England would be close I think.

10-15 years ago Pakistan were clear of India. Don’t think that’s the case now, and I’d even say India are a smidgeon ahead.

 

[Sunil1z]

10-15 years ago Pakistan were clear of India. Don’t think that’s the case now, and I’d even say India are a smidgeon ahead.

IND - Pak depends on venue .
Outside Asia Pak and in Asia Ind .
But since this is a pace dominating forum , they will give Pak the edge

 

[PlayerComparisons]

IND - Pak depends on venue .
Outside Asia Pak and in Asia Ind .
But since this is a pace dominating forum , they will give Pak the edge

Yeah CW rates Pak higher

Which Asian all time xi is the strongest?

India: Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Kohli, Pant, Dev, Ashwin, Kumble, Bumrah, Shami Pakistan: Anwar, Hanif, Younis, Miandad, Inzamam, Rizwan, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Saqlain Sri Lanka: Jayasuriya, Dilshan, Sangakkara, De Silva, Jayawardene, Chandimal, Samaraweera, Vaas, Herath...

www.cricketweb.net

 

[Sunil1z]

Unfortunately for most of them , in real world spin bowling also matters . That is why India is steadily climbing up the rankings in last 15 years .

 

[capt_Luffy]

Zimbabwe B XI
1 T Gripper
2 D Ebrahim
3 S Raza
4 A Pycroft
5 S Williams
6 M Vermeulen
7 R Chakabva+
8 T Friend
9 J Traicos*
10 M Jarvis
11 P Mbangwa

Zimbabwe C XI
1 G Rennie
2 T Mawoyo
3 V Sibanda
4 C Wishart
5 D Marillier
6 E Chigumbura
7 W James+
8 G Cremer
9 T Panyangara
10 B Strang
11 T Chatara

Nah man, Whittall averages high 20s with the bat, Williams in the 40s and Raza 35..... Leagues ahead imo.

 

[Jarquis]

Nah man, Whittall averages high 20s with the bat, Williams in the 40s and Raza 35..... Leagues ahead imo.

Yeah, cool.

here’s the thread - http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/all-time-zimbabwe-xi-game.77650/

I don’t think Raza had even played 10 tests when these got voted on

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah, cool.

here’s the thread - http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/all-time-zimbabwe-xi-game.77650/

I don’t think Raza had even played 10 tests when these got voted on

Ohhhh.... I thought you made those teams now. I am an idiot, completely missed the first line. Sorry.

 

[Northerner]

Zimbabwe B XI
1 T Gripper
2 D Ebrahim
3 S Raza
4 A Pycroft
5 S Williams
6 M Vermeulen
7 R Chakabva+
8 T Friend
9 J Traicos*
10 M Jarvis
11 P Mbangwa

Zimbabwe C XI
1 G Rennie
2 T Mawoyo
3 V Sibanda
4 C Wishart
5 D Marillier
6 E Chigumbura
7 W James+
8 G Cremer
9 T Panyangara
10 B Strang
11 T Chatara

Rawson would have to be in one of the teams imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Rawson would have to be in one of the teams imo.

Never played any Test match

 

[MexicanRiver]

I find it funny how a lot of people here show superiority complexes in ATG lists. Don't make it unnecessarily high standards ffs. There have been more than 3000 test cricketers in history, and among those, 2.5–3% are ATGs, roughly 75–80 players are ATGs. It's incredibly simple. Peer ratings: players who define a generation and were "consistently" among the top 10 players of their generation are ATGs. When you check players records, factor in mitigating circumstances and conditions as well, not just contextless stats. And for post-90s players, consider white ball cricket as well, player should be relevant in both tests and ODIS. People here consider kane with inflated stats and mediocre record against top sides both home and away mostly on flat pitches as ATG and instead get triggered when people call someone with more rounded record as ATGs.

 

[kyear2]

So after reading and watching vids of Hammond today, the YouTube algorithm decided to usher me towards some of the old legends of cricket videos. I watched the episodes for Hobbs, Hutton, Sobers, Sunny, Imran, Hadlee and Marshall.

For Hutton it confirmed to me what I previously believed, undoubtedly the 2nd best opener in in the history of the game and faced some of the better and varied attacks of the era and in history. I'm not sure I would want him in my ATG team, definitely in the squad if all goes to hell at the top, just not sure if he's first choice though.

Hadlee vs Imran, while by definition Imran may be the better all rounder, there's no doubt for me Hadlee was the greater cricketer, if that makes sense. Really think he should be vying for a top 5 AT spot. But I'll delve into that in another thread.

Maco and Sobers, nothing new .... Sobers in the 60's was imo the equal of any batsman not named Bradman, and in a group with only Hobbs and Sachin. He was the most versatile bowler in the history of the game and a slip fielder in the class of Hammond and Simpson. Surely challenges Bradman for the title of the greatest ever.

Sunny was just beautiful to watch in full swing. As a selector I would genuinely want a Graeme Smith in my all time team, but that would surely end up with me getting myself replaced, and Gavaskar would be the much more logical even if not enterprising selection. An excellent and worthy top 10 batsman.
Though I must say, for me, not as far ahead of Smith as most believe.

 

[SeamUp]

Does Dudley Nourse deserve to be an ICC Hall of Famer?

Peaks of each for points & ICC rankings for a gauge
Hutton 945 Apr 54 (1) Aug 49
Nourse 922 Jun 51 (1) Jan 50
Morris 850 Nov 51 (2) Nov 51
Headley 915 Jan 48 (2) Jan 35
Harvey 921 Feb 53 (1) Feb 53
Rowan 777 Aug 51 (6) Aug 51
Hassett 854 Jan 52 (2) Dec 51
Weekes 927 Mar 56 (1) Mar 56
Hazare 869 Nov 52 (2) Nov 52
Compton 917 Jul 48 (1) Dec 48
Worrell 828 Feb 54 (3) Feb 52

Rating at Aug 51

 

[capt_Luffy]

Does Dudley Nourse deserve to be an ICC Hall of Famer?

Peaks of each for points & ICC rankings for a gauge
Hutton 945 Apr 54 (1) Aug 49
Nourse 922 Jun 51 (1) Jan 50
Morris 850 Nov 51 (2) Nov 51
Headley 915 Jan 48 (2) Jan 35
Harvey 921 Feb 53 (1) Feb 53
Rowan 777 Aug 51 (6) Aug 51
Hassett 854 Jan 52 (2) Dec 51
Weekes 927 Mar 56 (1) Mar 56
Hazare 869 Nov 52 (2) Nov 52
Compton 917 Jul 48 (1) Dec 48
Worrell 828 Feb 54 (3) Feb 52

View attachment 39957

I mean, Vijay Harare is a hall of famer..... If he deserves to, then so does Nourse.

 

[SeamUp]

Rawson would have to be in one of the teams imo.

Shaun Pollock always mentions him & Malcolm Marshall as mentors at Natal. He says those 2 absolutely hated going for runs & that was ingrained on him.

Rawson, like Fletcher & Clift (although both were seamer all-rounders) you have to imagine they would have been capped by SA at some point if it was the old system.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Zimbabwe AT Test Team including Zimbabweans who never played Test:

1. Grant Flower
2. Hamilton Masakadza
3. Murray Goodwin
4. David Houghton (c)
5. Andy Flower (wk)
6. Brian Davison
7. Kevin Curran
8. Paddy Clift
9. Paul Strang
10. Heath Streak
11. Peter Rawson

Team A:

1. Alistair Campbell
2. Guy Whittall
3. Craig Ervine
4. Brendan Taylor
5. Sean Williams
6. Sikandar Raza
7. Tatenda Taibu (wk)
8. Duncan Fletcher (c)
9. Ray Price
10. Eddo Brandes
11. Kyle Jarvis

 

[Red]

I’ve always thought that anyone who’d make their way into a NZ all time XI is an ATG

It just works

 

[Coronis]

I find it funny how a lot of people here show superiority complexes in ATG lists. Don't make it unnecessarily high standards ffs. There have been more than 3000 test cricketers in history, and among those, 2.5–3% are ATGs, roughly 75–80 players are ATGs. It's incredibly simple. Peer ratings: players who define a generation and were "consistently" among the top 10 players of their generation are ATGs. When you check players records, factor in mitigating circumstances and conditions as well, not just contextless stats. And for post-90s players, consider white ball cricket as well, player should be relevant in both tests and ODIS. People here consider kane with inflated stats and mediocre record against top sides both home and away mostly on flat pitches as ATG and instead get triggered when people call someone with more rounded record as ATGs.

They’re seperate formats, unless you’re specifically talking about ATGs in both formats, they don’t both need to be considered.