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Debate thread for 2024 ranking of bowlers poll

capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Surprised by the total lack of votes for Peter Pollock. Anyways, my top 100 bowlers (post 1900/Test performances only):
  1. Malcolm Marshall
  2. Glenn McGrath
  3. Richard Hadlee
  4. Sydney Barnes
  5. Muttiah Muralitharan
  6. Shane Warne
  7. Dale Steyn
  8. Curtly Ambrose
  9. Wasim Akram
  10. Imran Khan
  11. Bill O'Reilly
  12. Allan Donald
  13. Dennis Lillee
  14. Fred Trueman
  15. Joel Garner
  16. Michael Holding
  17. Ray Lindwall
  18. Alan Davidson
  19. Waqar Younis
  20. Courtney Walsh
  21. Pat Cummins
  22. Shaun Pollock
  23. Andy Roberts
  24. Ravichandran Ashwin
  25. Jim Laker
  26. Clarrie Grimmett
  27. James Anderson
  28. Hedley Verity
  29. Kagiso Rabada
  30. Anil Kumble
  31. Hugh Tayfield
  32. Alec Bedser
  33. Jasprit Bumrah
  34. Brian Statham
  35. Bob Willis
  36. Vernon Philander
  37. Lance Gibbs
  38. Neil Adcock
  39. Derek Underwood
  40. John Snow
  41. Harold Larwood
  42. Keith Miller
  43. Kapil Dev
  44. Ian Botham
  45. B S Chandrasekhar
  46. Ian Bishop
  47. Wes Hall
  48. Frank Tyson
  49. Peter Pollock
  50. B S Bedi
  51. Richie Benaud
  52. Shoaib Akhtar
  53. Nathan Lyon
  54. Colin Croft
  55. Rangana Herath
  56. Jason Gillespie
  57. Bill Johnston
  58. Fazal Mahmood
  59. Stuart Broad
  60. Subhash Gupte
  61. Maurice Tate
  62. Ravindra jadeja
  63. Wilfred Rhodes
  64. Josh Hazlewood
  65. Neil Wagner
  66. Trent Boult
  67. Saqlain Mushtaq
  68. Graeme Swann
  69. Johnny Wardle
  70. Chamunda Vaas
  71. Erapalli Prasanna
  72. Heath Streak
  73. Mohammad Shami
  74. Mitchell Johnson
  75. Jeff Thomson
  76. Sonny Ramadhin
  77. Morne Morkel
  78. Bert Ironmonger
  79. Abdul Qadir
  80. Mitchell Starc
  81. Tony Lock
  82. Craig McDermott
  83. Jack Cowie
  84. Tim Southee
  85. Shane Bond
  86. Alf Valentine
  87. Garth McKenzie
  88. Ryan Harris
  89. Stuart MacGill
  90. Sylvester Clarke
  91. Darren Gough
  92. Makhaya Ntini
  93. Harbhajan Singh
  94. Ernie Toshack
  95. Manny Martindale
  96. Vinoo Mankad
  97. Charlie Griffith
  98. Fanie de Villiers
  99. Iqbal Qasim
  100. Bill Voce
 
Last edited:
Line and Length

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
At first glance the spinners appear to have been 'short changed' but 13 spinners v 37 pace-men might be a reflection of the 3 to 1 ratio of the bowlers in most teams.
My final votes included nominations for Tyson (several rounds) and Wardle. In the 2022 Tyson ranked above several of those who made this Poll's Top 50. While not fixated on averages, his 76 wickets @ 18.57 stands out like a sore thumb when looking at some of those making the list.
Similarly, Wardle with 102 wickets @ 20.39 has a superior average to other spinners on the list.
I suspect a relatively low number of Tests counts against them. Wardle had to fight for a spot often occupied by highly rated Laker while Tyson's career was ended by injury.
I wonder if the low number of Tests factor will come into play when I start the 2024 Batsmen Poll tomorrow, If the answer is "Yes" then Barry Richards would miss out.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
capt_Luffy said:
Surprised by the total lack of votes for Peter Pollock. Anyways, my top 50 bowlers (post 1900/Test performances only):
  1. Malcolm Marshall
  2. Glenn McGrath
  3. Richard Hadlee
  4. Sydney Barnes
  5. Muttiah Muralitharan
  6. Shane Warne
  7. Dale Steyn
  8. Curtly Ambrose
  9. Wasim Akram
  10. Imran Khan
  11. Bill O'Reilly
  12. Allan Donald
  13. Dennis Lillee
  14. Fred Trueman
  15. Joel Garner
  16. Michael Holding
  17. Ray Lindwall
  18. Alan Davidson
  19. Waqar Younis
  20. Courtney Walsh
  21. Pat Cummins
  22. Shaun Pollock
  23. Andy Roberts
  24. Ravichandran Ashwin
  25. Jim Laker
  26. Clarrie Grimmett
  27. James Anderson
  28. Hedley Verity
  29. Kagiso Rabada
  30. Anil Kumble
  31. High Tayfield
  32. Alec Bedser
  33. Jasprit Bumrah
  34. Brian Statham
  35. Bob Willis
  36. Vernon Philander
  37. Lance Gibbs
  38. Neil Adcock
  39. Derek Underwood
  40. John Snow
  41. Harold Larwood
  42. Keith Miller
  43. Kapil Dev
  44. Ian Botham
  45. B S Chandrasekhar
  46. Ian Bishop
  47. Wes Hall
  48. Frank Tyson
  49. Peter Pollock
  50. B S Bedi
Click to expand...
No Shoaib?
 
S

Socerer 01

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Had much better careers though....
Click to expand...
kiwibros love their tragically shortly curtailed career bowlers so that they can hype them up further with “oh what coulda been” to place them hypothetically really high doing a disservice to stalwarts like Boult and Wagner who are ****ing gun

Cowie might be the exception though since he does have a legit case like Flem showed
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
A very good list, we can quibble about individual places but directionally it’s really strong. For the Indians, think Ashwin too low (18-20 feels right), Jadeja too high (40-50) and Dev, Bumrah ranked fairly. Bedi a bit disappointing to miss out relative to folks like Snow but not much in it.

note: I realize the stats don’t make it easy to differentiate Ashwin and Jadeja in that way but you have to see the blow to understand
 
S

Socerer 01

International Captain
ma1978 said:
A very good list, we can quibble about individual places but directionally it’s really strong. For the Indians, think Ashwin too low (18-20 feels right), Jadeja too high (40-50) and Dev, Bumrah ranked fairly. Bedi a bit disappointing to miss out relative to folks like Snow but not much in it.

note: I realize the stats don’t make it easy to differentiate Ashwin and Jadeja in that way but you have to see the blow to understand
Click to expand...
i dont mind Ashwin’s final ranking, maybe a couple of spots higher if being picky but its him being behind Verity and Laker that makes him look low
 
H

howitzer

State Captain
Line and Length said:
At first glance the spinners appear to have been 'short changed' but 13 spinners v 37 pace-men might be a reflection of the 3 to 1 ratio of the bowlers in most teams.
My final votes included nominations for Tyson (several rounds) and Wardle. In the 2022 Tyson ranked above several of those who made this Poll's Top 50. While not fixated on averages, his 76 wickets @ 18.57 stands out like a sore thumb when looking at some of those making the list.
Similarly, Wardle with 102 wickets @ 20.39 has a superior average to other spinners on the list.
I suspect a relatively low number of Tests counts against them. Wardle had to fight for a spot often occupied by highly rated Laker while Tyson's career was ended by injury.
I wonder if the low number of Tests factor will come into play when I start the 2024 Batsmen Poll tomorrow, If the answer is "Yes" then Barry Richards would miss out.
Click to expand...
England usually played a five man attack with Bailey and two spinners back then. Given Wardle was a left armer it could be argued it was the chucker Lock keeping him out of a lot of sides, which probably rankles even more than it just being Laker.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
Line and Length said:
At first glance the spinners appear to have been 'short changed' but 13 spinners v 37 pace-men might be a reflection of the 3 to 1 ratio of the bowlers in most teams.
Click to expand...
Spinners are lower leverage in most conditions outside of South Asia. As part of a balanced attack, it's much less likely for your "ace" to be a spinner than a seamer in the modern era, and I think it's for good reason. The poll results accurately reflect that, I think. Heck, I'd definitely remove Lyon, and maybe another spinner as well.
 
0

_00_deathscar

International Regular
Bolo. said:
.

Meh.

I also don't agree with rating bumrah this high due to his limited number of games. But I don't think he should be compared to botham. Bumrah is probably the best bowler I can remember watching. I've heard a lot of people describe Botham's peak numbers as better than his performances. Bumrah looks at least as good as his stupid numbers.

And Botham has a proven record of failure ouside of his peak.

FTR, I still think Botham had a better career for now.
Click to expand...
Whoa whoa whoa - you are South African right? No Indian who watched cricket from around 2005 onwards would even make that claim with a certain South African who retired recently…
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
_00_deathscar said:
Whoa whoa whoa - you are South African right? No Indian who watched cricket from around 2005 onwards would even make that claim with a certain South African who retired recently…
Click to expand...
Aside from fitness, longevity, and the fact that I'm including Steyns decline while Bumrah's hasn't happened, probably. Not minor things OFC, but that's why I reckon Bumrah is rated too high for now.
 
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