Debate thread for 2024 ranking of bowlers poll

[capt_Luffy]

I thought we were debating whether T20 has impacted Test batting. Are we discussing the positive or negative impact of T20 batting in Test

Impact is not so much so a debate imo. Scoring in Tests have been faster than ever before and as previously pointed out, many shots are played which no one would had even thought of not more than 2 decades ago. It's how much negatively it affected their technique and how much more shots being implemented makes up for it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If it's impossible to find evidence to support then it's hardly a reasonable point to make right?

I suppose the honest answer to this from my perspective is "this is a thing that has happened, but I'm too lazy to try and prove it to the 1 guy on cricketweb that doesn't believe it for some reason and is demanding evidence"

 

[Xix2565]

Like when India got bullied by the WIs in the 1980s, was it because Kapil and co were negatively affected by ODI cricket? If you think this idea has no water, then why believe the same thing about T20 cricket?

 

[Sunil1z]

Have believed it from the time of his debut and stated at few places too. Jaiswal is a once in a life time jewel that we have got and 100% sure that he is going to end an ATG. Exceptions are not examples etc. Just check the frequency of the 150+ scores ratio since T20 started to the 150+ scores ratio over the history.

WTF did I just read ?
Do you know both Pujara and Mayank Aggarwal had similar start to Jaiswal and see where they are now .

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's all connected tbh. My point is that people attribute what they see as poor performance largely to the presence of T20s, which is bizarre to me. There's more factors involved that influences a player's batting results that isn't mentioned, like bowler talent/skill and conditions which never seem to be brought up as reasonable points, instead it's basically jumping to the idea that people suck nowadays as if cricket is the one sport where players don't get better over generations.

Again, more than one thing can be true. These things are not mutually exclusive.

And again, it's not about players not getting "better". It's about a change in priorities and style of play. It's not necessarily "worse"

 

[Xix2565]

I suppose the honest answer to this from my perspective is "this is a thing that has happened, but I'm too lazy to try and prove it to the 1 guy on cricketweb that doesn't believe it for some reason and is demanding evidence"

It's fine if you don't want to prove it, but this doesn't mean that what you believe has any substance.

 

[Socerer 01]

Anyone who is watching Test cricket can clearly observe T20 shots being attempted in Test . You don’t need articles for that .

You think Joe Root would have attempted reverse scoop if not for T20 games .

dude, Joe Root has played only 14 t20s since Baz took over as coach in over 2 years. how on earth is that having an impact on his test batting?

this is what im calling as lazy narratives

 

[Xix2565]

Again, more than one thing can be true. These things are not mutually exclusive.

And again, it's not about players not getting "better". It's about a change in priorities and style of play. It's not necessarily "worse"

It's hardly true if it's not backed up or shown. Then it's just a faulty assumption.

 

[Sunil1z]

dude, Joe Root has played only 14 t20s since Baz took over as coach in over 2 years. how on earth is that having an impact on his test batting?

this is what im calling as lazy narratives

You think Bazball hasn’t impacted Root’s method of playing.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's fine if you don't want to prove it, but this doesn't mean that what you believe has any substance.

Bro why do you always do this lol. "Prove it or don't say it". The other day when someone asked you to prove something you were saying you responded by "no, you prove it's not true"

It's a free exchange of ideas not a college masters course I can make an observation without providing dozens of sources

 

[Xix2565]

Bro why do you always do this lol. "Prove it or don't say it". The other day when someone asked you to prove something you were saying you responded by "no, you prove it's not true"

It's a free exchange of ideas not a college masters course I can make an observation without providing dozens of sources

I kind of expect some common sense to be present in this exchange of ideas. That involves not making weird statements with little backing.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I kind of expect some common sense to be present in this exchange of ideas. That involves not making weird statements with little backing.

You prove that T20 cricket hasn't affected Test batting

I'll wait

 

[Sunil1z]

I kind of expect some common sense to be present in this exchange of ideas. That involves not making weird statements with little backing.

He is not making a weird statement. You have become completely unreasonable.

 

[Sunil1z]

Days are not far when we will have someone demanding articles to prove that Chris Martin was a rubbish batsman.

 

[Socerer 01]

You think Bazball hasn’t impacted Root’s method of playing.

Root has literally come out and said that its not Baz or Stokes forcing him to play those shots, he’s doing it out if his own freewill

and fwiw i think he’s right in playing them, he’s bloody good at it and its a shot that forces bowlers and fields to adapt. its only dumb to do it against Bumrah when his side needed him to keep his wicket but is it any different if he had waltzed down the ground trying to bop it over a spinner or pierce the gap? would we be blaming t20 cricket innovation if that happened

 

[Xix2565]

This factor is way overrated, and more importantly, unprovable.

This is essentially my point.

 

[Xix2565]

He is not making a weird statement. You have become completely unreasonable.

It's unreasonable to expect more sensible points?

 

[Socerer 01]

Days are not far when we will have someone demanding articles to prove that Chris Martin was a rubbish batsman.

this is a really bad strawman and you know it, he’s got the 4th worst batting average in test cricket history with a 20 innings cutoff while batting in the flattest era and there’s ample footage of him looking like a clown

 

[Xix2565]

You prove that T20 cricket hasn't affected Test batting

I'll wait

If it's to do with the shots being played, then there is a visible effect of T20 cricket, though that can also be attributed to the development in ODI cricket over a longer period. I've not denied this anywhere to be honest.

If it's to with batting averages in general I can point to pitch conditions around the world in the past few years, the general record of bowlers during said period, the developments in bowling skills like the wobble seam becoming widespread and so on that suggest other factors have had a larger negative effect on Test batting records than people playing more T20 cricket.

 

[Socerer 01]

runs per over in test cricket in this century

2000-2015:- 3.21
2016-2024:- 3.22

the averages have obviously dropped but the scoring rate being almost same despite Baz’s best attempts to alter that should answer some questions over batsmen being only capable of playing aggressive cricket nowadays