Debate thread for 2024 ranking of bowlers poll

[Socerer 01]

Bumrah , Cummins and Rabada aren’t the only standout performers
Anderson, Broad , Woakes , Ashwin , Jadeja, Shami , Starc , Hazlewood, Lyon , Boult, Wagner , Henry (recent series) , WI bowlers at home , Shaheen Shah Afridi all have made the life of batsmen extremely miserable

Combine them with spicy pitches produced in last 6 years , batsmen are struggling to average even 40 overseas .

nah you see thats all due to t20 cricket, even the likes of Pujara and Karunaratne struggling to average above 40? thats also because these test batsmen who seldom play t20s have been affected by t20 cricket /s

 

[kyear2]

Bumrah , Cummins and Rabada aren’t the only standout performers
Anderson, Broad , Woakes , Ashwin , Jadeja, Shami , Starc , Hazlewood, Lyon , Boult, Wagner , Henry (recent series) , WI bowlers at home , Shaheen Shah Afridi all have made the life of batsmen extremely miserable

Combine them with spicy pitches produced in last 6 years , batsmen are struggling to average even 40 overseas .

But that's my point, I don't believe most of them as special. They are definely test standard and good players, but they aren't as special as some of the numbers being out up. But that's just my opinion, the pitches are of course part of it.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

no one and I mean no one thoughtO’Reilly was better than Trueman

I would be interested to know about those that saw both at their peak and thought Trueman was better?

Among guys that thought highly of O’Reilly, Keith Miller in 1977 described “O’Reilly as the best bowler of any type the game had ever seen.” Don’t think that opinion actually ever changed too.

 

[capt_Luffy]

But that's my point, I don't believe most of them as special. They are definely test standard and good players, but they aren't as special as some of the numbers being out up. But that's just my opinion, the pitches are of course part of it.

That's literally the circular logic though; that batsmen have declined and so the bowlers doing good against them are also not special.

 

[kyear2]

you have dudes like Thakur, Ngidi and Hasan Ali averaging in the 20s but sure buddy, its not an era where pitches have been bowler friendly or spicy

yeah t20 cricket has killed muh test cricket batting rears its head again, next we’ll have the argument of “if those **** bowlers can average in the 20s, then the batsmen they’re bowling to are **** too” and then the circular logic of **** batting and bowling in modern day cricket begins

I said none of that, and it solidifies what I said about this being an argument that exists in your head. So carry on.

 

[Socerer 01]

This has been a repeated attack of yours, so I'll address it.

No one has ever said the standard of cricket has regressed, this is purely in your head.

I have said repeatedly that I don't believe this is a bowling era. There's been so standout performances, I think Bumrah is special, Cummins, Rabada etc. But because of the focus of T20 cricket, it's seeped into test cricket. The top tier guys are still doing well, though each of them have their issues as well and Smith in particular has either been impacted by the pitches or just his natural decline.
I wouldn't say the game has regressed, there's still room performers with bat, ball and in the field.

I'm not even going to dignify the comments on the eulogizing of the 80's, believe what you wish.

and here’s you saying all of that

 

[Sunil1z]

But that's my point, I don't believe most of them as special. They are definely test standard and good players, but they aren't as special as some of the numbers being out up. But that's just my opinion, the pitches are of course part of it.

They may not be ATG . But all of these bowlers destroy you when they get even little bit help from pitches in their favour . And this has been happening consistently in last 6 years . So, batting has become very hard in most of the places .

 

[kyear2]

That's literally the circular logic though; that batsmen have declined and so the bowlers doing good against them are also not special.

The pitches are better, the batting less test focused, better bowling numbers.

And yes better, have no issues with more bowling friendly pitches once there's some balance. But a good seaming pitch is way better than draw pitches from not too long ago.

 

[Socerer 01]

They may not be ATG . But all of these bowlers destroy you when they get even little bit help from pitches in their favour . And this has been happening consistently in last 6 years . So, batting has become very hard in most of the places .

i doubt this guy even watches matches nowadays. his fav team is Windies and he has 0 posts in their last tour thread while he lives rent free in every comparison and atg thread involving 80s players

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Bumrah , Cummins and Rabada aren’t the only standout performers
Anderson, Broad , Woakes , Ashwin , Jadeja, Shami , Starc , Hazlewood, Lyon , Boult, Wagner , Henry (recent series) , WI bowlers at home , Shaheen Shah Afridi all have made the life of batsmen extremely miserable

Combine them with spicy pitches produced in last 6 years , batsmen are struggling to average even 40 overseas .

Guys like Kohli and Williamson would average 50+ away from home in the 2000s IMO

 

[Socerer 01]

The pitches are better, the batting less test focused, better bowling numbers.

And yes better, have no issues with more bowling friendly pitches once there's some balance. But a good seaming pitch is way better than draw pitches from not too long ago.

if the overall batting is less test focused, why are test specialists also struggling globally?

 

[kyear2]

They may not be ATG . But all of these bowlers destroy you when they get even little bit help from pitches in their favour . And this has been happening consistently in last 6 years . So, batting has become very hard in most of the places .

All true, but how are they adapting, are they grinding it out or are matches ending in 3 days?

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Socerer 01]

“i wont say that the standard of cricket has regressed, its all in your head and you’re making it up but i’ll say everything insinuating that and finish it with thats all im gonna say”

 

[Sunil1z]

All true, but how are they adapting, are they grinding it out or are matches ending in 3 days?

That's all I'm saying.

Because batsmen nowadays are giving more priority to runs than occupying the crease . And that is because of them playing more short format games .

So you can saying that Test matches are getting finished quickly because of
1. Bowler friendly pitches
2 . Batsmen playing more quickly because they play more short format game
3 . Lots of very good bowlers in every Team .

 

[kyear2]

i doubt this guy even watches matches nowadays. his fav team is Windies and he has 0 posts in their last tour thread while he lives rent free in every comparison and atg thread involving 80s players

I don't watch WI cricket unless it's against Australia or England and even then I'll just glance through, the quality isn't there and it's depressing.

I watch most other competitive tours and every single one this year. I don't post often but I pop in from time to time if a point needs to be made. But I've watched every Australia, India, England tour, and the other teams when facing referenced teams.

I know you'll like to flaunt your cricket acumen, but just because I don't live in tour threads doesn't prove anything.

 

[kyear2]

Guys like Kohli and Williamson would average 50+ away from home in the 2000s IMO

Definely, and don't some down grade batsmen from that era because of how flat they were?

 

[Socerer 01]

I don't watch WI cricket unless it's against Australia or England and even then I'll just glance through, the quality isn't there and it's depressing.

i have news for u, their last tour was against Australia

and they also had a kinda famous win there ive heard?

 

[kyear2]

i have news for u, their last tour was against Australia

I'm aware. Seriously dude.

We were given next to no chance, not something I was going to glue myself to. But yes, watched over the last day.

Wasn't as bad as when I skipped the 153* because I figured the match was lost.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Bumrah , Cummins and Rabada aren’t the only standout performers
Anderson, Broad , Woakes , Ashwin , Jadeja, Shami , Starc , Hazlewood, Lyon , Boult, Wagner , Henry (recent series) , WI bowlers at home , Shaheen Shah Afridi all have made the life of batsmen extremely miserable

Combine them with spicy pitches produced in last 6 years , batsmen are struggling to average even 40 overseas .

Plus the likes of Jamieson, Axar Patel, Robinson, Boland etc

 

[Socerer 01]

Plus the likes of Jamieson, Axar Patel, Robinson, Boland etc

GOAT of this discussion has to be Kyle Mayers, casually maintaining a sub 20 bowling avg despite bowling just over 250 overs