Ashwin v Laker v Verity v Grimmett

[capt_Luffy]

Well for starters, they both do pretty amazingly well, just that Murali is incredible. Secondly I mentioned flashiness as well which Warne supposedly had lots of.

I also have no idea why you think Shakib would do well with this?

Had his fair share of shitty teammates and played quite a fair few games against minnow sides.... But on rethinking, I don't think Shakib will do "that" good I was expecting him to with playing plenty big teams, SL and Afghanistan having decent spinners and Miraj and Taijul being quite decent.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Had his fair share of ****ty teammates and played quite a fair few games against minnow sides.... But on rethinking, I don't think Shakib will do "that" good I was expecting him to with playing plenty big teams, SL and Afghanistan having decent spinners and Miraj and Taijul being quite decent.

Shakib is not even the best spinner in the side. Its Taijul

 

[srbhkshk]

Had his fair share of ****ty teammates and played quite a fair few games against minnow sides.... But on rethinking, I don't think Shakib will do "that" good I was expecting him to with playing plenty big teams, SL and Afghanistan having decent spinners and Miraj and Taijul being quite decent.

He barely does better than the others. Jadeja actually does much better.

Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Shakib	31.06​	34.03​	2.96​	1.10​
Jadeja	24.14​	34.53​	10.39​	1.43​

 

[howitzer]

He barely does better than the others. Jadeja actually does much better.

Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Shakib	31.06​	34.03​	2.96​	1.10​
Jadeja	24.14​	34.53​	10.39​	1.43​

Shakib is a myth. Glad the forum is realising that.

 

[Socerer 01]

He barely does better than the others. Jadeja actually does much better.

Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Shakib	31.06​	34.03​	2.96​	1.10​
Jadeja	24.14​	34.53​	10.39​	1.43​

another feather in the cap for Jadeja being the greatest spin all rounder of all time

 

[kyear2]

Simple. Ashwin has more wickets than Marshall. Ashwin has less wickets than the other two, but he has a better away average against the best team of the ERA (Australia) so he's better.

Is this for real?

Since the subsequent post was obviously trolling, I'll assume the same for this one.

 

[shortpitched713]

Why? Both Chandrashekhar and Bedi especially did quite well in WI. Rather, Bedi failed in England and the problem of Chandra was his immense inconsistency.

Chandra was the best of the quartet, because although inconsistent, he was penetrative in more given sets of conditions than the rest. This is something of a repeating theme, honestly.

I think he's outclassed though by the later workhorse standard bearers of Indian spin though, in Kumble, and finally the true ATG Ashwin.

 

[shortpitched713]

I know this will vary according to career circumstances but might still be useful to have a look, Murali and Warne included for reference. Shows why Verity is rated highly, he is actually slightly above Warne in this parameter. Ashwin a fair bit better than Laker and Grimmet.

	In matches involving said player.
Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Murali	22.73​	39.75​	17.02​	1.75​
Verity	24.38​	36.80​	12.43​	1.51​
Warne	25.42​	37.82​	12.41​	1.49​
Ashwin	23.75​	33.55​	9.80​	1.41​
Laker	21.25​	28.22​	6.98​	1.33​
Grimmet	24.22​	31.12​	6.90​	1.28​

Thank you for using facts to answer my earlier question.

 

[shortpitched713]

Verity is the new wonderkid of CW

Lol, some dude no one has even seen replay footage of bowling is our new champion. FFS.

 

[ma1978]

Lol, some dude no one has even seen replay footage of bowling is our new champion. FFS.

He’s the flavour of the moment. Next thing you know you will see someone arguing Maurice Tate > Kapil Dev.

 

[howitzer]

Maurice Tate > Kapil Dev imo.

 

[subshakerz]

Did it do that too though to an actually tangible extent? For example, Warne has a bigger reputation than Murali; but still Murali is leagues above him in this comparison.

Warnes rep is not greatly better. In fact, I think in SC, Muralis may be better.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

So O’Reilly is basically an Ashwin level bowler but only one of them is rated as ATG

And Verity = Warne by same metric. Australia had the strongest spin attack in its entire history arguably from any country during Tiger’s time so not much of surprise really.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

He’s the flavour of the moment. Next thing you know you will see someone arguing Maurice Tate > Kapil Dev.

Is there any doubt that Maurice Tate > Kapil Dev

 

[Coronis]

I know this will vary according to career circumstances but might still be useful to have a look, Murali and Warne included for reference. Shows why Verity is rated highly, he is actually slightly above Warne in this parameter. Ashwin a fair bit better than Laker and Grimmet.

	In matches involving said player.
Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Murali	22.73	39.75	17.02	1.75
Verity	24.38	36.80	12.43	1.51
Warne	25.42	37.82	12.41	1.49
Ashwin	23.75	33.55	9.80	1.41
Laker	21.25	28.22	6.98	1.33
Grimmet	24.22	31.12	6.90	1.28

Just to look at this a different way.

O’Reilly in matches with Grimmett 81 @ 21.46 6 5’fers
Grimmett in matches with O’Reilly 88 @ 20.85 9 5’fers

O’Reilly in Ashes with Grimmett 47 @ 23.51 4 5’fers
Grimmett in Ashes with O’Reilly 30 @ 33.13 2 5’fers

O’Reilly in matches with Verity 92 @ 26.71 6 5’fers
Verity in matches with O’Reilly 59 @ 28.06 3 5’fers

Verity in matches with Grimmett 25 @ 27.32 2 5’fers
Grimmett in matches with Verity 29 @ 32.89 2 5’fers
O’Reilly in matches with Grimmett and Verity (played in all 7 of them) 37 @ 26.37 2 5’fers

Grimmett bowled an average of 36.1 overs per innings
O’Reilly bowled an average of 34.8 overs per innings
Verity bowled an average of 25.5 overs per innings

Verity took 12.4% of his team’s wickets
O’Reilly took 16.9% of his team’s wickets
Grimmett took 18.8% of his team’s wickets

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Lol, some dude no one has even seen replay footage of bowling is our new champion. FFS.

Having watched replay footage is not a criteria. What if Ashwin was from 1900 and Verity from 2000?

 

[CricAddict]

I know this will vary according to career circumstances but might still be useful to have a look, Murali and Warne included for reference. Shows why Verity is rated highly, he is actually slightly above Warne in this parameter. Ashwin a fair bit better than Laker and Grimmet.

	In matches involving said player.
Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Murali	22.73​	39.75​	17.02​	1.75​
Verity	24.38​	36.80​	12.43​	1.51​
Warne	25.42​	37.82​	12.41​	1.49​
Ashwin	23.75​	33.55​	9.80​	1.41​
Laker	21.25​	28.22​	6.98​	1.33​
Grimmet	24.22​	31.12​	6.90​	1.28​

Surprised by the difference between Verity and Grimmett. O'Reilly, Grimmett and Verity played in the same era and almost always together/against each other, isn't it? And they all have great averages. So, not sure who else is getting that 36.8 for Verity.

Also, for Murali, unless Warne played, the other spinners during his time didn't have a great average anywhere while Ashwin, Laker and Grimmett era had other good spinners too. For Ashwin, Jadeja himself gets that other spinner average down quite a bit I think.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

"some dude" Hedley Verity has dismissed Don Bradman eight times in his Test career, the most for any bowler against Bradman

 

[Socerer 01]

Having watched replay footage is not a criteria. What if Ashwin was from 1900 and Verity from 2000?

then Ashwin would be CW’s 21st best bowler of all time

 

[Coronis]

In conclusion as I’ve said previously, I think Verity’s average is somewhat protected by bowling less, but definitely had a better performance head to head with Grimmett in the Ashes. Grimmett’s average is probably hurt by always being the main bowler (in the Ashes at least), but he was better than both O’Reilly and Verity at running through weaker teams.

Verity (22/40) tbf also played a larger portion of his matches against weaker teams than Grimmett (15/37) or O’Reilly (8/27).