Ashwin v Laker v Verity v Grimmett

[ma1978]

Quartet highly overrated actually

 

[Socerer 01]

Know another player who's quite underrated? Chandrashekhar. Bloke had match winning or drawing performances in almost every place he played in including Australia, England and WI.

nah, he’s rightfully rated

he was also **** on many occasions that go under the radar because everyone’s forgotten those

 

[capt_Luffy]

nah, he’s rightfully rated

he was also **** on many occasions that go under the radar because everyone’s forgotten those

I would say he has more match winning or atleast turning performances in SENA than probably any other Asian spinner..... That should definitely push him a few spots for Subs atleast.

 

[srbhkshk]

I know this will vary according to career circumstances but might still be useful to have a look, Murali and Warne included for reference. Shows why Verity is rated highly, he is actually slightly above Warne in this parameter. Ashwin a fair bit better than Laker and Grimmet.

	In matches involving said player.
Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Murali	22.73​	39.75​	17.02​	1.75​
Verity	24.38​	36.80​	12.43​	1.51​
Warne	25.42​	37.82​	12.41​	1.49​
Ashwin	23.75​	33.55​	9.80​	1.41​
Laker	21.25​	28.22​	6.98​	1.33​
Grimmet	24.22​	31.12​	6.90​	1.28​

 

[capt_Luffy]

I know this will vary according to career circumstances but might still be useful to have a look, Murali and Warne included for reference. Shows why Verity is rated highly, he is actually slightly above Warne in this parameter. Ashwin a fair bit better than Laker and Grimmet.

	In matches involving said player.
Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Murali	22.73​	39.75​	17.02​	1.75​
Verity	24.38​	36.80​	12.43​	1.51​
Warne	25.42​	37.82​	12.41​	1.49​
Ashwin	23.75​	33.55​	9.80​	1.41​
Laker	21.25​	28.22​	6.98​	1.33​
Grimmet	24.22​	31.12​	6.90​	1.28​

Yeah, but I think an important factor to consider using this parameter is who the other spinners. Like for Grimmett, he played a fair few matches with O'Reilly and Ironmonger. I definitely think that hits him quite hard. Same for Ashwin playing with Jadeja and Laker to an extent with Lock and Wardle (though I have pointed out how in his 4 away tours; Ramadhin, Benaud, Tayfield and Ferguson have outperformed him).

 

[srbhkshk]

Yeah, but I think an important factor to consider using this parameter is who the other spinners. Like for Grimmett, he played a fair few matches with O'Reilly and Ironmonger. I definitely think that hits him quite hard. Same for Ashwin playing with Jadeja and Laker to an extent with Lock and Wardle (though I have pointed out how in his 4 away tours; Ramadhin, Benaud, Tayfield and Ferguson have outperformed him).

I understand that but performance relative to peers (along with flashiness which tbh is not much of a factor for spinners) is probably among the key factors that determine the players reputation during their careers, even if it might be an intrinsic feeling rather than an actual analysis.

 

[Socerer 01]

I understand that but performance relative to peers (along with flashiness which tbh is not much of a factor for spinners) is probably among the key factors that determine the players reputation during their careers, even if it might be an intrinsic feeling rather than an actual analysis.

its much better than blind checklist analysis

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

I know this will vary according to career circumstances but might still be useful to have a look, Murali and Warne included for reference. Shows why Verity is rated highly, he is actually slightly above Warne in this parameter. Ashwin a fair bit better than Laker and Grimmet.

	In matches involving said player.
Player	Average (Self)	Average (Other Spinners)	Difference	Ratio
Murali	22.73​	39.75​	17.02​	1.75​
Verity	24.38​	36.80​	12.43​	1.51​
Warne	25.42​	37.82​	12.41​	1.49​
Ashwin	23.75​	33.55​	9.80​	1.41​
Laker	21.25​	28.22​	6.98​	1.33​
Grimmet	24.22​	31.12​	6.90​	1.28​

What about O’Reilly?

 

[capt_Luffy]

I understand that but performance relative to peers (along with flashiness which tbh is not much of a factor for spinners) is probably among the key factors that determine the players reputation, even if it might be an intrinsic feeling rather than an actual analysis.

I mean, think it this way. In matches involving them; Hadlee would outperform other pacers much more than Marshall do. And especially for Grum, he really wasn't better than O'Reilly to begin with. Verity didn't really played together with many great spinners

 

[capt_Luffy]

its much better than blind checklist analysis

Not without considering who "the other" spinners are

 

[srbhkshk]

I mean, think it this way. In matches involving them; Hadlee would outperform other pacers much more than Marshall do. And especially for Grum, he really wasn't better than O'Reilly to begin with. Verity didn't really played together with many great spinners

Which is why I said reputation and not quality.

 

[Socerer 01]

Not without considering who "the other" spinners are

sure but you also have opposition spinners who counterbalance

 

[srbhkshk]

What about O’Reilly?

O ' Reilly

22.60​

31.99​

9.40​

1.42​

 

[capt_Luffy]

Which is why I said reputation and not quality.

Did it do that too though to an actually tangible extent? For example, Warne has a bigger reputation than Murali; but still Murali is leagues above him in this comparison.

 

[capt_Luffy]

sure but you also have opposition spinners who counterbalance

Only if opposition have quality spinners the though. What I am saying is, Shakib would probably do very good by this excersize.

 

[Socerer 01]

Only if opposition have quality spinners the though. What I am saying is, Shakib would probably do very good by this excersize.

yeah understandable, im not saying its a good thing in isolation but its good along with other things and its miles better than blind checklists that have been happening recently

 

[srbhkshk]

Did it do that too though to an actually tangible extent? For example, Warne has a bigger reputation than Murali; but still Murali is leagues above him in this comparison.

Well for starters, they both do pretty amazingly well, just that Murali is incredible. Secondly I mentioned flashiness as well which Warne supposedly had lots of.

I also have no idea why you think Shakib would do well with this?

 

[honestbharani]

Murali is better than Warne though.. leagues above is a stretch but Murali was better.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Verity is the new wonderkid of CW

 

[PlayerComparisons]

O ' Reilly

22.60​

31.99​

9.40​

1.42​

So O’Reilly is basically an Ashwin level bowler but only one of them is rated as ATG