How does Ravindra Jadeja compare with Kapil Dev and Ian Botham ( Tests)

[ma1978]

perfectly said

Not very good with numbers I see

 

[Coronis]

Not very good with numbers I see

I think that may be you

 

[subshakerz]

If they all played in same era, same bowlers, same conditions overlapping their career, what would their batting and bowling averages be?

Without DRS and those pitches, Jaddu averages something like 25 in India. Batting likely goes down a couple of points depending on how often he actually plays abroad because he would be forced to play entire series.

 

[Majestic]

Not very good with numbers I see

I think that may be you

Let me help you both.

Kapil Bat Avg 31, Bowl Avg 29
Botham Bat Avg 33, Bowl Avg 28

 

[Majestic]

Without DRS and those pitches, Jaddu averages something like 25 in India. Batting likely goes down a couple of points depending on how often he actually plays abroad because he would be forced to play entire series.

I might like to think that if all factors into consideration and keeping everything balanced,

Botham bowl Avg 27, bat Avg 35
Kapil bowl Avg 27, bat Avg 33
Jadeja bowl Avg 28, bat Avg 33

Jadeja has his batting average inflated by not outs while his bowling is heavily influenced by home performance.

Botham barely had not outs, he was a genuine impact batter. Kapil Dev was also genuine impact batter and a destructive one alongwith the superior record than his contemporaries vs Windies.

 

[Coronis]

Let me help you both.

Kapil Bat Avg 31, Bowl Avg 29
Botham Bat Avg 33, Bowl Avg 28

Exactly, Botham is superior. He also scores more runs per innings, takes more wickets per innings, scores tons and fifties more often, takes 5’fers and 10’fers more often. He also takes more catches.

And for all the talk about Kapil carrying Indian bowling Botham still takes a larger percentage of the English team’s wickets and scores a larger percentage of the England team’s runs.

He also outperformed him when they played against each other.

Kapil’s only argument for being better than Botham is performance against the Windies and if you think that trumps everything else, good for you.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Jadeja has his batting average inflated by not outs while his bowling is heavily influenced by home performance.

So on the same pitches where he’s being marked down with his bowling because, spicy pitch, his batting is also being marked down despite him being one of about 5 batsmen worldwide to average 40+ with the bat on these pitches in the last 5 years or so.
Got it…

 

[ma1978]

Exactly, Botham is superior. He also scores more runs per innings, takes more wickets per innings, scores tons and fifties more often, takes 5’fers and 10’fers more often. He also takes more catches.

And for all the talk about Kapil carrying Indian bowling Botham still takes a larger percentage of the English team’s wickets and scores a larger percentage of the England team’s runs.

He also outperformed him when they played against each other.

Kapil’s only argument for being better than Botham is performance against the Windies and if you think that trumps everything else, good for you.

this is statistically indistinguishable

 

[subshakerz]

You can spin Botham vs Kapil however you want but their numbers are statistically very similar and Kapil qualitatively has a better record against the Windies which matters

Do you agree that between players with similar averages, one can be qualitatively superior?

 

[ma1978]

Do you agree that between players with similar averages, one can be qualitatively superior?

of course - once within a statistical range qualitative analysis is everything

 

[subshakerz]

I would like to think that scoring up the order, taking a higher share of wickets, and doing great away from home we can agree go to a players favor. But somehow we see excuses come into play to argue with basic cricket premises.

 

[subshakerz]

of course - once within a statistical range qualitative analysis is everything

Great then Botham is better.

 

[Majestic]

So on the same pitches where he’s being marked down with his bowling because, spicy pitch, his batting is also being marked down despite him being one of about 5 batsmen worldwide to average 40+ with the bat on these pitches in the last 5 years or so.
Got it…

Yes, it's possible. His runs per innings is lower than both despite averaging higher, suggesting that his contribution with bat is lower. South Africa, England and New Zealand don't have quality spinners and those were the type of bowlers he played in India. He averages well against them in first innings but poor in second innings.

 

[ma1978]

I would like to think that scoring up the order, taking a higher share of wickets, and doing great away from home we can agree go to a players favor. But somehow we see excuses come into play to argue with basic cricket premises.

you mean awayfrom home like the West Indies

 

[ma1978]

Great then Botham is better.

in yourmind I’m sure he is but that’s purely subjective

 

[subshakerz]

you mean awayfrom home like the West Indies

I agree in Jadeja's case, we ignore WI.

 

[honestbharani]

Peak Botham is almost incomparable. But when it comes to rating careers, which is how I perceive these comparisons, going with Kaps.

 

[Majestic]

Exactly, Botham is superior. He also scores more runs per innings, takes more wickets per innings, scores tons and fifties more often, takes 5’fers and 10’fers more often. He also takes more catches.

And for all the talk about Kapil carrying Indian bowling Botham still takes a larger percentage of the English team’s wickets and scores a larger percentage of the England team’s runs.

He also outperformed him when they played against each other.

Kapil’s only argument for being better than Botham is performance against the Windies and if you think that trumps everything else, good for you.

One more argument for Kapil is that he just didn't had the bowling partner to support him for hunt in partner.

Jadeja has Ashwin.
Botham had Willis.
Kapil had none in 80s.

Not an easy job for a pacer doing it on his own.

 

[ma1978]

I agree in Jadeja's case, we ignore WI.

you seem to ignore the West Indies in your assessment of Botham

we couldn’t handle the heat

 

[subshakerz]

in yourmind I’m sure he is but that’s purely subjective

No my point is bringing up their averages being close as some clincher ain't going to work.

Botham was vastly superior at his peak, batted up the order, scored more tons, etc. His batting is simply better.

Bowling they are close, but overall Botham takes this.