Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Many people consider Jim Thorpe and Jesse Owens as GOATs
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Jack Hobbs vs Gary Sobers
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Agree with bowling, but Hobbs probably faced the greatest extremities of conditions and horrid pitches everywhere, be it the sticky wickets of Eng, bouncy wickets in Aus(the insane gluepot wicket), or matted wickets in SA. He succeeded everywhere and his dominance over his peers in the pre war era is second only to Bradman. Plus transcended the post and pre war eras.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
But this should be close. Hobbs is the second and Sobers tied for fourth.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Having "The Better Bat" as the poll criteria gives it to Hobbs. Had it been "The Better Cricketer" the result would be quite different.
kyear2
International Coach
I was just answering the question asked.
And for the record
Miller, Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud, Trueman, Snow, the quartet, Lillee and that's just off the top of my head.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
And Babe Ruth. But most sports will have a couple, not a whole fetish over 20-30 old timers.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Most of us really have less than 15 Pre War cricketers in like top 100....
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
This is quite true. Of the top 50 batsmen, the top 40 pace-men and top 30 spinners in the 2022 CW polls only 13 didn't play Test cricket after WWII. A number played both before and after that war with names like Bradman and Hutton highly regarded.
What I find interesting is that of the 13 players whose entire careers were pre WWII, 7 are spinners. In fact 2 (Trumble and Blythe) had pre WWI careers.
How does this happen when names such as Grace and Barnes failed to get votes in these polls? (I know some weren't convinced Barnes was a pace bowler.)
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I think we need to run such a poll again and include the medium pacers with the pacers. Like, I could atleast understand Barnes not making it; but Bedser is just really sad....
Better bowlers in Sobers time than Hobbs. But also better bowlers after his times.
Coronis
International Coach
*Cough* Sutcliffe *Cough*
_00_deathscar
International Regular
That just proves my point
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I don't necessarily think it does. Cricket is almost 400 years old for crying out loud..... I can't think of many sports with such a vast history. If anything, most of us would do a disservice by naming 100 Greatest Cricketers and not even thinking about Alfred Mynn, John Small, Billy Beldham and Fuller Pilch. Even if by cricket you only mean from the moment Overarm bowling became legal; or even Test cricket began; that's still more than 150 years old. If anything, the WWII ended after 80 years Test has been played. That's a big stretch of time. And for the record, I am not really well versed in history of many sports other than cricket and football; so by comparing with football, it never just spread nearly as much. Still; Pre WWII footballers I have in my Top 100:
Giuseppe Meazza, Jose Leandro Andrade, Jose Manuel Moreno, Matthias Schindler, Adolfo Pedernera, Jozsef Bican, Leonidas Da Silva, Angelo Labruna, Hector Scarone, Dixie Dean, Jose Nasazzi. There are 11 players in total.
Now in cricket:
Don Bradman, W G Grace, Jack Hobbs, Sydney Barnes, Wally Hammond, Bill O'Reilly, George Headley, Herbert Sutcliffe, Hedily Verity, Clarrie Grimmett, Ranjitsinhji, Victor Trumper, Dudley Nourse, Clem Hill, Wilfred Rhodes, Aubrey Faulkner. I would say considering everything; it's more or less about on point.
Coronis
International Coach
Does it though? The same thing is in baseball. Basketball has a shorter history no doubt but similarly from the 60’s and back.
Cricket has more greats from older periods simply because it is an older sport, similar to baseball to an extent. They both also benefit from being non-contact sports and sports where pure athleticism isn’t as great an advantage.
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
Also (again like Baseball) it's a pretty stats-driven sport. Easier to quantify an individual's contribution from their numbers than in most team sports.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
I’d only have Meazza, Bican, Dean and Moreno in mine. Football has also been around since (very) late 1800s for many professional clubs.
There just isn’t the reverence given to the old timey crowd, something which is still very unique to cricket I think, despite the age.
Really the age doesn’t matter so much here because very few alive have seen these guys play, and there exists very little if any footage of them.
Appreciate, though, that something like being less athletic driven for cricket and baseball and way more stats oriented can play into that.
However, especially with regards to cricket, there’s also a huge issue for the old timey players because it is so conditions dependent, something football doesn’t need to deal with (cold wet Tuesday nights in Stoke jokes aside) — it’s why I refuse to take a lot of the really old players at face value for their stats.
And for the most part, the old timey crowd only had to deal with 2-3 countries at most.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
We shouldn't. Or else we might end up thinking that Eddie Paynter is among the best after Don. But still, on closer scrutiny; we can see how the game changed over the years; when it began easier for batting and when it wasn't.
Also on a sidenote; you're really doing a disservice to two players in particular there (I would also argue for Pedernera, De Stefano's idol, who makes my Top 50, but these two much more); Jose Leandro Andrade and Matthias Schindler. Andrade was truly the first global star of football, winning a World Cup and 2 Olympic gold medals; all the while being a defensive player. At that time attacking players were given even more preference than today; but still he probably is the only defensive player to be widely regarded as the best of his time. He makes my ATG team as a defensive medio. And the other Sindelar. The best player of the World's first Great team, Wunderteam of Austria; and among the world's finest dribblers; a very good argument can be made for him to be superior to his rival Meazza.
Coronis
International Coach
I know we’re arguing the same side but soccer sucks ass.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I mean, THAT ****ING **** IS CALLED FOOTBALL!!!
Coronis
International Coach
Still sucks ass