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Ravichandran Ashwin vs Nathan Lyon

Who is the better test bowler?


  • Total voters
    33

Spark

Global Moderator
Dropping Ashwin for Karn was one of the biggest travesties of that era of braindead Shastri/Kohli nonsense. It was the one legit turning pitch Australia have given India in a long time and we wasted it on a bloke who couldn't it even get it to land on said turning pitch.
Haha Karn Sharma, now there's a name I'd forgotten until I watched highlights of that game. India's bowling that tour was all kinds of tragic, especially given that several of the names we now recognise as part of that post-2018 ATG-tier attack were there. Batting stood up massively though.

Rahane was sawn off by a pretty poor decision though iirc.
Oh yeah that's true. Straight off the thigh pad.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I don't think that's quite true re: Adelaide. I recently rewatched a lot of that final day and Lyon was getting crazy amounts of turn and bounce outside the right hander's off stump from the rough; Vijay and Kohli had to play seriously well to nullify it and they definitely had their moments at times. Vijay simply missed a straight one, but then Rahane and Rohit both got done by the bounce rather than any aggressive intent. Saha played a terrible shot, but the threat of the new ball wrecking the lower order (which it ended up doing) forced Kohli to go into slog mode and that's when he holed out. After that it was all over, really.

It might well have been a draw, but it's no guarantee. Losing all those wickets just before the new ball was really bad timing for India, it left Kohli with no support at the other end.
Watching it live, I think it was pretty safe to say it would have been an easy draw with Vijay and Virat batting the way they did. Vijay just got brain dead once he got to his 90s for some reason. Much like Jaddu in this series when he ran out Sarfraz.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Watching it live, I think it was pretty safe to say it would have been an easy draw with Vijay and Virat batting the way they did. Vijay just got brain dead once he got to his 90s for some reason. Much like Jaddu in this series when he ran out Sarfraz.
Yeah, but like, the bloke got out playing across a straight one, not trying to slog. He could easily have gotten out stonewalling too. It's not like he was batting with any particular aggression, he was by far the more circumspect of the two. We'll never know tbh.
 

Daemon

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Haha Karn Sharma, now there's a name I'd forgotten until I watched highlights of that game. India's bowling that tour was all kinds of tragic, especially given that several of the names we now recognise as part of that post-2018 ATG-tier attack were there. Batting stood up massively though.
Varun Aaron also played two games

He also somehow played another 7

Disgusting
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Yeah, but like, the bloke got out playing across a straight one, not trying to slog. He could easily have gotten out stonewalling too. It's not like he was batting with any particular aggression, he was by far the more circumspect of the two. We'll never know tbh.
Fair enough but like I said, I am just sharing what I and most others thought watching it live. Pretty sure I was making the point you did in the match thread though. It was honestly refreshing to see a captain go for a target after MSD's defensive captaincy years.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Fair enough but like I said, I am just sharing what I and most others thought watching it live. Pretty sure I was making the point you did in the match thread though. It was honestly refreshing to see a captain go for a target after MSD's defensive captaincy years.
Oh yeah it was the right call for sure, and I think it was actually better for them from a sheer survival view to have attacked Lyon so much and really gone for the target because by really attacking him out of that rough outside off it forced Lyon into his "bad" mode where he bowls too short and straight, whereas every batsman on that pitch was in deep trouble if he landed it there consistently and they tried to defend. But the timing of that clump of wickets was just awful, there was absolutely no hope that the tail would survive the new ball there.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Lyon was indeed quite crap in those games though. I've already said his performances in those 2018 and 2021 series are probably the big black mark on his record in Australia! Ashwin really was excellent in the last two tours but we are only talking about three games, out of eleven.
Lyon won Australia the game in Perth 2018.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
I mean, I don't know how else to put this, but Australia lost those series. And they were lost in no small part because of an inability to take twenty poles. That's on Lyon's shoulders in no small measure, just as it is on the rest of the bowlers, but Lyon especially because of the 4th innings games.
To clarify, I am not arguing that Lyon didnt outright fail in 2021. In 2018, he did win Australia a game in Perth and took 8 wickets I recall in the first test, it wasn't nearly as bad as a performance overall. I don't think any spinner can be expected to deliver every test in Australia.
 

_00_deathscar

International Regular
To clarify, I am not arguing that Lyon didnt outright fail in 2021. In 2018, he did win Australia a game in Perth and took 8 wickets I recall in the first test, it wasn't nearly as bad as a performance overall. I don't think any spinner can be expected to deliver every test in Australia.
Those are his home conditions, he should be expected to deliver - wtf…
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
To clarify, I am not arguing that Lyon didnt outright fail in 2021. In 2018, he did win Australia a game in Perth and took 8 wickets I recall in the first test, it wasn't nearly as bad as a performance overall. I don't think any spinner can be expected to deliver every test in Australia.
True, on the other hand, Ashwin has had 2-3 attempts to finish off tests in 4th innings in Australia. He was successful once in Adelaide test 2018.
On the other occasion, it was Australia chasing 90 something after the 36/9 debacle by India. He couldn't have done much there(finished with 1/16).

There was also the Brisbane test 2014 which Australia chased a smallish total in last innings, but Ashwin didn't even bowl.

So, on the one occasion he got a proper opportunity to bowl the team to victory, he delivered.
 

Coronis

International Coach
To clarify, I am not arguing that Lyon didnt outright fail in 2021. In 2018, he did win Australia a game in Perth and took 8 wickets I recall in the first test, it wasn't nearly as bad as a performance overall. I don't think any spinner can be expected to deliver every test in Australia.
I don’t think any bowler should be expected to deliver in every test. Its just never gonna happen. Same with batsmen, even Bradman.
 

OverratedSanity

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The excuses made for Lyon and his team dropping 2 series in a row at home to India, and merely drawing with Windies, is crazy. This is the same lineup that apparently can’t play spin very well either
Yeah this is where @subshakerz lets the mask slip a bit. Guy waited around for months and when England won the first test, immediately started posting how Tom Hartley had won England a test in India so Ashwin/Jadeja's home achievements weren't really that great. Then went silent when India came back.

But not a peep about how Cummins and Lyon lost home series to a mediocre WI team and an India side that by the end of their tour was picking blokes from the local pani puri stands to fill in for their injured players.
 

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