Ravichandran Ashwin vs Nathan Lyon

[Spark]

I don't think that Lyon is substandard in Australia; but I don't think his record is better than just being good, and in his home soil, despite it being very ineffective for his kind of bowlers; is don't think it's really enough for him to be equal to or better than Ashwin. The thing many others have brought up is that, both have played 5-6 Tests together in Australia; and Ashwin has done relatively better in them. It's used not as a dig on Lyon (atleast not by me), but to suggest the pitches weren't necessarily friendly.

I think this is a frankly ridiculous view to suggest that Lyon's record in Australia is merely "good", especially in light of the fact that Ashwin has had the Philander-esque out of not playing when the conditions are obviously not suited to him, but okay.

 

[Spark]

Go have a look at what happened during the most recent Ashes after Lyon got injured if you want a better representation of how good he actually is.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I'd hate to be in Ashwin's shoes in Aus this time. So much pressure from CricketWeb

Much worse than the pressure of a billion fans

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think this is a frankly ridiculous view to suggest that Lyon's record in Australia is merely "good", especially in light of the fact that Ashwin has had the Philander-esque out of not playing when the conditions are obviously not suited to him, but okay.

All I can say is that, it's really tough to call his performances ATG even in Australia.

 

[Spark]

All I can say is that, it's really tough to call his performances ATG even in Australia.

Sure, I don't think he's an ATG (but my bar for ATG is very very high personally), but that doesn't really matter. It's not a binary decision and Lyon's performances in Australia do absolutely count hugely in his favour. The only really legitimate criticism of his record in Aus IMO is that he didn't get the job done against India in 2021, which is fair, but it's also worth remembering that he had an incompetent keeper who kept giving the opposition's most dangerous batsman lives.

 

[honestbharani]

Ash is a tier above Lyon. But Lyon is still great.

 

[subshakerz]

rapidly coming to the conclusion that ashwin's three (count 'em, three) good games in australia might just be the most over-indexed test match performances on this website right now

Yes thank you. Someone else needed to say it.

 

[subshakerz]

According to Subs criteria, he compares bowlers to other ATGs in ATG discussions. I’d like to think by the logic, Lyon’s 28+ average sub Aus, Eng, Ind, SA would be substandard and merely decent, not anything great.

Lyon ain't an ATG. Neither is Ashwin. But Lyon is capable of winning matches and running through sides everywhere, unlike Ashwin. Lyon is a threat in SC and SENA, plus his record in Australia is very impressive compared to Ashwin home bullying.

 

[subshakerz]

I think this is a frankly ridiculous view to suggest that Lyon's record in Australia is merely "good", especially in light of the fact that Ashwin has had the Philander-esque out of not playing when the conditions are obviously not suited to him, but okay.

Of course they would diminish Lyon in Australia because their central calculus to decide player worthiness is how much do they contribute to Indian victories. Otherwise Lyon won games on his lonesome when India toured in 2014 and 2018 which they never bring up.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lyon ain't an ATG. Neither is Ashwin. But Lyon is capable of winning matches and running through sides everywhere, unlike Ashwin. Lyon is a threat in SC and SENA, plus his record in Australia is very impressive compared to Ashwin home bullying.

Can we leave this topic now, please; if no side has anything to add to their arguments..... I have nothing to add, you have nothing to add, HH I don't really think could say anything new; what's the point of arguing then? We rate a player differently, and that's completely fine. Let it end at that...

 

[subshakerz]

Can we leave this topic now, please; if no side has anything to add to their arguments..... I have nothing to add, you have nothing to add, HH I don't really think could say anything new; what's the point of arguing then? We rate a player differently, and that's completely fine. Let it end at that...

Lol I don't disagree but why so quick to end this thread yet fine with the other one going on forever for some reason despite all the insults there?

 

[Socerer 01]

Lol I don't disagree but why so quick to end this thread yet fine with the other one going on forever for some reason despite all the insults there?

because they dont want a repeat of it here my dude

 

[subshakerz]

Compare Ashwin fans going on and on about his 12 wicket- tour in Australia when Lyon took 14 wickets in a single winning game in Adelaide 2014 which isn't even worth a mention. It's such a ridiculous double standard that leads me to realise that it will take 5 year post retirement of both Lyon and Ashwin for things to settle down and then being able to view records objectively.

 

[Socerer 01]

for all the talk of how Lyon has been great in India, he has been marginally outbowled by SOK and Murphy on his last 2 tours to India

still a big fan of the dude and I think many Australian fans are wildly underrating him because he doesnt have the charisma or appear macho

 

[subshakerz]

for all the talk of how Lyon has been great in India, he has been marginally outbowled by SOK and Murphy on his last 2 tours to India

Maybe single tests, not entire tour performance.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lol I don't disagree but why so quick to end this thread yet fine with the other one going on forever for some reason despite all the insults there?

Because I don't want a repeat; and I have done this exercise with you before, quite a few times; but if you want to continue be my guest. But I don't think I will respond without any new, arguable point from you.

 

[subshakerz]

Because I don't want a repeat; and I have done this exercise with you before, quite a few times; but if you want to continue be my guest. But I don't think I will respond without any new, arguable point from you.

Sure and maybe we should develop the ability to let threads end naturally.

 

[Socerer 01]

Maybe single tests, not entire tour performance.

that applies to Murphy but not SOK, SOK did bowl better in 2017

if you want to dock Ashwin for something, his fitness and availability are a lot easier to target. Lyon played what, 100 consecutive tests without missing on them? Ashwin’s almost always broken down inevitably on long tours in comparison

 

[subshakerz]

that applies to Murphy but not SOK, SOK did bowl better in 2017

if you want to dock Ashwin for something, his fitness and availability are a lot easier to target. Lyon played what, 100 consecutive tests without missing on them? Ashwin’s almost always broken down inevitably on long tours in comparison

Outside of the 1st test, I believe Lyon bowler better than SOK the rest of the series. But overall it's close.

 

[Xix2565]

For all of Lyon's much vaunted ability to run through sides anywhere, he still ends up taking less wickets per match than Ashwin.