subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Once again trashing other bowlers for your favorite.
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Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Then I'll take it as the concession of ATG Ashwin.
Just trying to apply common standards and more importantly, to get out of the habit of cherry picking stats
I actually think their abysmal performance in India has nothing to do with the legacy of W and M when I look at the totality of their output
Same way I feel about Ashwin (and Anderson)
I’m trying to show you the folly of contorting yourself to pick and choose stats when it suits your purpose and ignoring inconvenient facts when it doesn’t
And this isn’t an Ashwin thing, I think you’re just as off on Kallis and Anderson
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Quit the cherry picking. You’ll be happier and enjoy the game more for doing so.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
#racistbutthurtdrivel #2
"I dont care about finger spinners. and yet post in this thread every quarter of the hour"
"I dont care about finger spinners. and yet post in this thread every quarter of the hour"
If it's this difficult for you to elaborate your standards and make a case for and against players to show how Ashwin isn't an ATG then might as well concede the point right? Simple.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
He cant. India keeps doing well.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Root on facing Ashwin: 'Don't play the previous ball'
The England batter explains why Ashwin is such a challenging bowler to face in Test cricket
www.espncricinfo.com
kyear2
International Coach
This entire thread is a dumpster fire and one of the worse I've read recently only rivalled by the other Ashwin ATG one.
I disagree with @subshakerz as much as anyone, but the anti India narrative just doesn't jive with me considering Tendulkar is literally one of the two players he rides for the hardest on this forum.
@Xix2565 however is without doubt one of the worst posters since Ikki and at least needs to learn some kind of etiquette and how to engage with posters without the ad hominem attacks. People would disagree with Subz, but he's respectful.
Someone asked if Walsh is an ATG, he isn't. Not close, he had a really good career, even a great one. But he's not an ATG simply because you played longer, same goes for Anderson, Lyon and Ashwin. How many overseas matches has he been omitted from, what does his career away numbers look like outside of two countries and the mess that's WIs cricket? We're just ignoring all of that?
And for those mentioning the lower tiers of ATG that by definition doesn't exist. They've been 3 legitimate ATG spinners and don't think there would be a 28 page argument over 3 days about any of them. Similarly any of the fast bowlers or batsmen.
Ashwin and Jadeja(?) are basically the modern day 3Ws, and how many of you have them as clear cut or consensus ATGs?
I disagree with @subshakerz as much as anyone, but the anti India narrative just doesn't jive with me considering Tendulkar is literally one of the two players he rides for the hardest on this forum.
@Xix2565 however is without doubt one of the worst posters since Ikki and at least needs to learn some kind of etiquette and how to engage with posters without the ad hominem attacks. People would disagree with Subz, but he's respectful.
Someone asked if Walsh is an ATG, he isn't. Not close, he had a really good career, even a great one. But he's not an ATG simply because you played longer, same goes for Anderson, Lyon and Ashwin. How many overseas matches has he been omitted from, what does his career away numbers look like outside of two countries and the mess that's WIs cricket? We're just ignoring all of that?
And for those mentioning the lower tiers of ATG that by definition doesn't exist. They've been 3 legitimate ATG spinners and don't think there would be a 28 page argument over 3 days about any of them. Similarly any of the fast bowlers or batsmen.
Ashwin and Jadeja(?) are basically the modern day 3Ws, and how many of you have them as clear cut or consensus ATGs?
Sorry, but he's not respectful at all. Doesn't respond properly when asked, and instead derails from the general points being made for no reason. If that's respect then you should've no problem with me.
I don’t agree at all but we have a fundamental difference of opinion and I would argue all the 3 Ws are ATGs and in the case of Sir Frank Worrell, an inner circle ATG on the level of Bradman and Grace.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Except when I engage with other posters, they usually don't have to debate basic premises over what we disagree about and respond so harshly if they don't get the answers the like.
They generally ignore your inadequacies, true. Which you still haven't really made up for.
kyear2
International Coach
@capt_Luffy had a good idea, so let's tier the ATGs
Bradman / Sobers / Marshall / Tendulkar / Hobbs / McGrath/ Hadlee
In no order and by country
Warne / Gilchrist / Smith / Hutton / Hammond / Gavaskar / Imran / Kallis / Steyn / Muralitharan / Richards / Lara / Ambrose
Final / borderline
O'Reilly / Lillee / Ponting / Chappell / Sutcliffe / Knott / Wasim / Donald / G. Pollock / Sangakkara / Headley / Garner
Of the top of my head, sure I'm missing someone(s)
After that are the truly great and great players. No disrespect but they are challenging for a spot in an ATG team. Well Smith for me, but that's probably my issue.
Bradman / Sobers / Marshall / Tendulkar / Hobbs / McGrath/ Hadlee
In no order and by country
Warne / Gilchrist / Smith / Hutton / Hammond / Gavaskar / Imran / Kallis / Steyn / Muralitharan / Richards / Lara / Ambrose
Final / borderline
O'Reilly / Lillee / Ponting / Chappell / Sutcliffe / Knott / Wasim / Donald / G. Pollock / Sangakkara / Headley / Garner
Of the top of my head, sure I'm missing someone(s)
After that are the truly great and great players. No disrespect but they are challenging for a spot in an ATG team. Well Smith for me, but that's probably my issue.
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The problem is you are so analytically inconsistent it’s impossible to establish basic premises. And because you find basic concepts difficult that aren’t really factually disputable (that India is and has been for the the best test team in the world), you leave yourself open to criticisms of bias.
kyear2
International Coach
I agree that Worrell is the closest to being ATG, a great captain and decent all rounder. But think you're conflating the person and the cricketer.
This is just ridiculous and arbitrary. There’s no need to get specific and once you get into this, how do you have Garner and not Holding, Lillee and not Trueman, have only one wicketkeeper, exclude a pace bowler with 700 witkcets, etc. This is just arbitrary statsmongerjng