Virat Kohli vs Jacques Kallis

[Chrish]

Since 2015 SA in India series, india has consistently rolled out probably the most treacherous wickets in modern history; you probably have to go all the way back to pre-WW 1 war to find such precedent.

In fact, SA prepared similar minefields after that tour whenever India visited them (wickets so bad they themselves were scared of batting on it in last inning). That says something, doesn’t it??

 

[OverratedSanity]

Since 2015 SA in India series, india has consistently rolled out probably the most treacherous wickets in modern history; you probably have to go all the way back to pre-WW 1 war to find such precedent.

They really haven't. There were plenty of road pitches in this period. The explosion of rank turners began quite a bit later after 2019.

 

[Bolo.]

Since 2015 SA in India series, india has consistently rolled out probably the most treacherous wickets in modern history; you probably have to go all the way back to pre-WW 1 war to find such precedent.

In fact, SA prepared similar minefields after that tour whenever India visited them (wickets so bad they themselves were scared of batting on it in last inning). That says something, doesn’t it??

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

12 Indians averaging above 60 at home since 2016. There's some LOL sample size for several, but the fact that guys are failing to hold down a place in the side with those kind of numbers says a lot.

The occasional minefield doesn't change the fact that Indians have typically found batting at home very easy recently.

One bat (with 78 runs in total) averages above 50 away in the same period- this has not been some golden period for Indian batting, other than at home.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea Kohlis still averaging 60 at home so can’t have been that tough

 

[Bolo.]

Yea Kohlis still averaging 60 at home so can’t have been that tough

It could... he could just be on another level. But being similar to other home bats, and averaging 42 away don't support this.

 

[honestbharani]

They really haven't. There were plenty of road pitches in this period. The explosion of rank turners began quite a bit later after 2019.

I would argue outside of the d/n game in Ahmedabad and the odd turner like Pune 2017, the one against Aus last year and the 2015 series Vs RSA, we have not really had any pitch that you can call "treacherous". If any pitch that spins is the definition of "rank turner" then it all becomes a bit pointless.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Inzamam has just 1.5 runs more on SRand thats far…
Average has more emphasis than SR and also … even if Inzamam’s performance (1996-2007) is compared with Kallis (1996-2007)
Inzamam averages 38 and Kallis averages 44 and yes 6, that is a comfortable difference

If Kallis averaged 10 points less and strike rate 5 points higher, he would have been far Better ODI player.

 

[ankitj]

50 ODI batsmen better than Kallis not necessarily in order:

1) Viv Richards
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) AB de Villiers
4) Virat Kohli
5) Michael Bevan
6) MS Dhoni
7) Zaheer Abbas
8) Ricky Ponting
9) Rohit Sharma
10) Brian Lara
11) Mark Waugh
12) Saeed Anwar
13) David Warner
14) Matthew Hayden
15) Adam Gilchrist
16) Mike Hussey
17) Kumar Sangakkara
18) Dean Jones
19) Hashim Amla
20) Shane Watson
21) Gordon Greenidge
22) Desmond Haynes
23) Javed Miandad
24) Inzamam ul-Haq
25) Greg Chappell
26) Babar Azam
27) Chris Gayle
28) Jos Buttler
29) Joe Root
30) Eoin Morgan
31) Johnny Bairstow
32) Graeme Smith
33) Herschelle Gibbs
34) Allan Lamb
35) Gary Kirsten
36) Faf du Plessis
37) Quinton de Kock
38) Shikhar Dhawan
39) Yuvraj Singh
40) Marcus Trescothick
41) Tillekeratne Dilshan
42) Mohammad Azharuddin
43) Ross Taylor
44) Virender Sehwag
45) Sanath Jayasuriya
46) Kevin Pietersen
47) Jason Roy
48) Aaron Finch
49) Damien Martyn
50) Michael Clarke

Terrible post

 

[ankitj]

There's a couple there who I would consider marginal but most of these are clear. Kallis fwiw was initally a pretty decent bat for late 90s-early 00's ODI's. He was perhaps a tad slower than ideal for an upper-middle bat but not by much and was very reliable. The trouble really began with the first big scoring rate boom around 2003 when he didn't alter his game to adjust for the new requirements. He somewhat redressed it in the last few years but there were half a dozen or so years from about 2003 where I believe his rate of scoring was a genuine liability at the time in the format.

You are right about Kallis until about 2003. He wasn't a liability at all. Was a very fine batsman in fact.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Terrible post

Which ones do you agree with.

Admittedly a handful are questionable, but most of them are clearly better than him imo.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Terrible post

Yes.
No mention of Desilva, Crowe, Ganguly, Astle, Dravid, Cronje, Ajay Jadeja, Lloyd,Steve Waugh, Ranatunga, Ijaz, Gambhir ... Etc

Kallis clearly outside Top 70 IMO.

 

[Socerer 01]

the Jason Roy disrespect is unreal itt

 

[Raz0r6ack]

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

12 Indians averaging above 60 at home since 2016. There's some LOL sample size for several, but the fact that guys are failing to hold down a place in the side with those kind of numbers says a lot.

The occasional minefield doesn't change the fact that Indians have typically found batting at home very easy recently.

One bat (with 78 runs in total) averages above 50 away in the same period- this has not been some golden period for Indian batting, other than at home.

Yea Kohlis still averaging 60 at home so can’t have been that tough

V. Kohli 2418 runs @ 96.72 (8 Oct 2016 - 22 Nov 2019) in India.

Since then 586 runs @ 34.47 including 186 on a flat dead wicket against Australia.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

V. Kohli 2418 runs @ 96.72 (8 Oct 2016 - 22 Nov 2019) in India.

Since then 586 runs @ 34.47 including 186 on a flat dead wicket against Australia.

Yea it’s definitely been really tough in the 2020s

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Yea it’s definitely been really tough in the 2020s

Has also coincided with his bad phase. Let’s see how he does now

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Has also coincided with his bad phase. Let’s see how he does now

He can’t miss anymore home tests. He missed out on so many runs against Eng.

 

[ma1978]

He can’t miss anymore home tests. He missed out on so many runs against Eng.

I’m sure he’s deeply concerned about whether the people of CW consider him a better batsman than Kallis.