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Virat Kohli vs Jacques Kallis

Who is the better test batsman?


  • Total voters
    41

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
Don’t overrate Buttler these much… Then Afridi must also be comfortably better than Tendulkar with his Strike Rate.
Strike Rate has significance, but that doesn’t mean everything
Average has more significance
Pls Afridi and Tendulkar averages have a massive difference despite Tendulkar batting for the entirely of the 90s. And their SR’s are far similar. And Kallis and Buttler’s averages are pretty close despite Buttler being an attacking lower order batsmen.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
My Top 50:
  1. Viv Richards
  2. Virat Kohli
  3. Sachin Tendulkar
  4. A B de Villiers
  5. M S Dhoni
  6. Michael Bevan
  7. Ricky Ponting
  8. Zaheer Abbas
  9. Brian Lara
  10. Rohit Sharma
  11. Sanath Jayasuriya
  12. Adam Gilchrist
  13. David Warner
  14. Sourav Ganguly
  15. Saeed Anwar
  16. Mark Waugh
  17. Babar Azam
  18. Kumar Sangakkara
  19. Dean Jones
  20. Gordon Greenidge
  21. Lance Klusner
  22. Matthew Hayden
  23. Aravinda De Silva
  24. Mike Hussey
  25. Greg Chappell
  26. Jos Buttler
  27. Yuvraj Singh
  28. Tilakratna Dilshan
  29. Hashim Amla
  30. Clive Lloyd
  31. Ross Taylor
  32. Chris Gayle
  33. Desmond Haynes
  34. Inzamam-ul-Haq
  35. Faf Du Plessis
  36. Martin Crowe
  37. Javed Miandad
  38. Mahela Jayawardena
  39. Shane Watson
  40. Kevin Pietersen
  41. Herschelle Gibbs
  42. Quinton de Kock
  43. Mohammad Azharuddin
  44. Joe Root
  45. Kane Williamson
  46. Jonny Bairstow
  47. Shikhar Dhawan
  48. David Miller
  49. Hancie Cronje
  50. Jacques Kallis
  51. Arjuna Ranatunga
  52. Virendra Sehwag
  53. Damien Martyn
  54. Michael Clarke
  55. Steve Smith
  56. Shivnarine Chanderpaul
  57. Angelo Mathews
  58. Marcus Trescothick
  59. Rahul Dravid
  60. Shakib Al Hasan
It's a rough order; I am sure missing many. So, Kallis might make it; might not for me....
 

Cricket Bliss

School Boy/Girl Captain
Pls Afridi and Tendulkar averages have a massive difference despite Tendulkar batting for the entirely of the 90s. And their SR’s are far similar. And Kallis and Buttler’s averages are pretty close despite Buttler being an attacking lower order batsmen.
Buttler averages 39 and Kallis 44 despite Kallis playing in more difficult conditions against more difficult attacks…at times Kallis also had to face new balls…its like comparing Kallis with someone averaging around 50. A difference of 5 can’t be that close … Kallis played majority of his career before the two new ball rule came
and many lower order batsmen average exceptionally like Bevan, Dhoni , Hussey

Butler has done excellently only against Pakistan, South Africa and upto an extent against Australia (West Indies and Sri Lankan bowling are minnows)

and Kallis did exceptionally against India (avg 61) , New Zealand, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (they were great on his era)… hence till today in comparison Kallis has performed better against better opponents
 

Cricket Bliss

School Boy/Girl Captain
Pls Afridi and Tendulkar averages have a massive difference despite Tendulkar batting for the entirely of the 90s. And their SR’s are far similar. And Kallis and Buttler’s averages are pretty close despite Buttler being an attacking lower order batsmen.
Still don’t understand how Kallis SR - 73 and Inzamam SR - 74 has difference
and Tendulkar SR - 86 and Afridi SR - 117 are far similar for you?
 

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
Buttler averages 39 and Kallis 44 despite Kallis playing in more difficult conditions against more difficult attacks…at times Kallis also had to face new balls…its like comparing Kallis with someone averaging around 50. A difference of 5 can’t be that close … Kallis played majority of his career before the two new ball rule came
and many lower order batsmen average exceptionally like Bevan, Dhoni , Hussey

Butler has done excellently only against Pakistan, South Africa and upto an extent against Australia (West Indies and Sri Lankan bowling are minnows)

and Kallis did exceptionally against India (avg 61) , New Zealand, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (they were great on his era)… hence till today in comparison Kallis has performed better against better opponents
There is a massive difference in their SR’s. And yes Kallis played his career in less batter friendly conditions, but he’s a top order player. Buttler’s a lower order attacking player, more likely to bat for shorter period of times and risk his wicket more. Kallis’s SR is too bad to be a great ODI bat. Try to compare Buttler with other WK bats outside MS Dhoni and ABD.
 

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
Still don’t understand how Kallis SR - 73 and Inzamam SR - 74 has difference
and Tendulkar SR - 86 and Afridi SR - 117 are far similar for you?
Dude Afridi averages 23. Tendulkar 44, and 50 as an opener. Plus Tendulkar played a good part of his career(all of the 90s in tougher conditions ran Afridi). Plus Inzi is better than Kallis cause of having a marginally better or similar SR despite debuting earlier+strong WC knockout performances
 

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
And you can’t compare an opener like Tendulkar to a lower order bat/near tailender like Afridi. Inzi and Kallis are proper bats
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Kallis has far better average.. If going with WC performance then Yaspal Sharma must be better than Kallis , Amla etc as he was the batsmen who made best impact for India in the 83 World Cup
World Cup performances matters while ranking players. Most ATGs have one or two exceptional WCs. It's more akin to how a great Football World Cup is important for a players legacy. Inzi had that one; Kallis doesn't. And Yashpal Sharma has nothing of any substance except that WC; Inzi isn't like that.
 

Cricket Bliss

School Boy/Girl Captain
Dude Afridi averages 23. Tendulkar 44, and 50 as an opener. Plus Tendulkar played a good part of his career(all of the 90s in tougher conditions ran Afridi). Plus Inzi is better than Kallis cause of having a marginally better or similar SR despite debuting earlier+strong WC knockout performances
Still averaging 5 less than Kallis despite playing 280 + ODI in the same era of Kallis makes Kallis genuinely more consistent… And having 1 run more as strike rate by just playing 5 years before Kallis…and playing 280+ ODI (11 years of his career) with Kallis isn’t much of a point to say Inzamam is better than Kallis.
Kallis edges easily through consistency…
If he’d had similar stats playing in the 70s or 80s then genuinely he is ahead… but playing 80% of his career with Kallis with 1 run more in SR and 5 runs less in average makes Kallis superior

and by World Cup performance, Yes Inzamam has an edge there… but still players like ABD or Amla dosen’t have such a great World Cup Performance… if you’re going with 2015 WC then Kallis has 2007 WC
 

Cricket Bliss

School Boy/Girl Captain
World Cup performances matters while ranking players. Most ATGs have one or two exceptional WCs. It's more akin to how a great Football World Cup is important for a players legacy. Inzi had that one; Kallis doesn't. And Yashpal Sharma has nothing of any substance except that WC; Inzi isn't like that.
Then ABD doesn’t have such a WC performance.. if you’re going to say 2015 WC … then Kallis has 2007 WC
moreover before 2023 WC Virat Kohli didn’t have impressive WC performance and was comfortably lower than Kallis in WC, still he was regarded among Viv and Tendulkar
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Then ABD doesn’t have such a WC performance.. if you’re going to say 2015 WC … then Kallis has 2007 WC
moreover before 2023 WC Virat Kohli didn’t have impressive WC performance and was comfortably lower than Kallis in WC, still he was regarded among Viv and Tendulkar
Kohli did good in all of 2019, 2015 and even the 2011 WC. And literally WC performance was one of the biggest reasons why people rated Sachin over Kohli; and ABD lacking one such WC performance is also a big reason why many rate him a bit lower than the Top 3. As for everything; World Cup performance is definitely end all be all, you could still be a great player like Flintoff, etc without having a Great one. That doesn't mean they don't count.
 

Cricket Bliss

School Boy/Girl Captain
There is a massive difference in their SR’s. And yes Kallis played his career in less batter friendly conditions, but he’s a top order player. Buttler’s a lower order attacking player, more likely to bat for shorter period of times and risk his wicket more. Kallis’s SR is too bad to be a great ODI bat. Try to compare Buttler with other WK bats outside MS Dhoni and ABD.
There is a point there, but still i guess it has another point… more lower the order more likely to stay not out.. like Dhoni and Bevan
+ especially in the two ball era no reverse swing so easy batting order than the top order who might have faced the new ball 80% of the time

and lower order batsmen generally tend to have more SR than top order batsmen who has to anchor the innings.. still Buttler edges in aggressiveness
 

Cricket Bliss

School Boy/Girl Captain
Kohli did good in all of 2019, 2015 and even the 2011 WC. And literally WC performance was one of the biggest reasons why people rated Sachin over Kohli; and ABD lacking one such WC performance is also a big reason why many rate him a bit lower than the Top 3. As for everything; World Cup performance is definitely end all be all, you could still be a great player like Flintoff, etc without having a Great one. That doesn't mean they don't count.
Then Kallis had good performances in the 99 and 2007 World Cup with 1148 runs @ 45
and Inzamam is very below mediocre as he avg 23 in World Cups and that by far sums up Kallis >> Inzamam at World Cups

and Kohli before 2023 WC had 1030 runs @ 44… almost similar to Kallis.. still Kohli was with Viv and Tendulkar

I think WC point is pretty clear
 

Cricket Bliss

School Boy/Girl Captain
Dude Afridi averages 23. Tendulkar 44, and 50 as an opener. Plus Tendulkar played a good part of his career(all of the 90s in tougher conditions ran Afridi). Plus Inzi is better than Kallis cause of having a marginally better or similar SR despite debuting earlier+strong WC knockout performances
Have you compared the World Cup performances of Inzamam
Its like 700+ runs @ 23 <<<< Kallis 1148 runs @ 45
 

Chrish

International Debutant
Instinctive reaction is Kallis.. But Kohli has played in far worse conditions throughout his career.

Closer than one might think..
 

Bolo.

International Captain
Instinctive reaction is Kallis.. But Kohli has played in far worse conditions throughout his career.

Closer than one might think..
I doubt this. Other than the odd minefield, Kallis' conditions were pretty consistently tougher for home batting. There are a lot of bowlers who can do at least one of seam/swing/bounce the ball to a reasonable standard, and they all become serious threats in RSA. Far, far fewer decent spinners.

Away, Kohli has had it tougher. But he hasn't played exclusively from 2016/17 or so on. Conditions in the early 2010s were similar to the 2000s. And Kallis was also playing in the 90s. It's not the same proportion of career in a tougher era, but I'm not convinced it makes up for the home conditions.
 

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