honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
A clear majority seems to agree on the answer to the question of this thread though.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Ponting is an ATG. Dravid ain't. Or Miandad. You retroactively propping up Dravid doesn't make him one. Unless of course you want to include any great as an ATG. If you can't see the qualitative difference then I can't help you.
Laker was a different era and judged according to that time. Ashwin still has the same question marks on him that the had 100 wickets ago or 200 wickets ago. Just because some locals fans are in a tizzy over him getting 500 wickets doesn't change his basic limitations.
Btw, it is extremely odd for a player not be marked as an ATG pretty much by early to middle of his career and then later claim so. That itself should give a clue. It's not like there has been some dramatic improvement in Ashwin to change his status. He wasn't an ATG before and isn't now, and I can guarantee post-retirement will struggle to be remembered as better than Kumble.
Last edited:
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Just read all of this thread and been wondering who's hacked your account.......significant upgrade though itbt.
Thats all I've got to say here or ill start throwing ***** out the windows.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
HB relax mate, everyone knows your opinion
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
He's not and they know it. They just feel bad and want to give some extra props for Ashwin and Anderson getting to their recent milestones.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
That's a strange way to assess players.... You gave no point on why Ponting and Laker are so much ahead of the likes of Dravid and Ashwin. Ponting was rated so highly because he peaked earlier and there is no reason why that should hold more weight than somebody peaking later. Laker also wasn't much highly rated in his playing days and was regarded as a bad pitch bowler. Underwood was rated better by peers. And I don't understand why you would have such a problem with revisionism. In the time they were active, Compton was rated better than Hutton, and May than Barrington. Surely most people differ now on that sentiment, thanks to revising their careers.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
He’s similar to Dravid who is rated as ATG on here. They suck against Aus and SA but are great against everyone else.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Then Walsh also falls prey to the same argument. I don't think performing better in one or two specific countries should hold more weight than some other. Had he sucked in the SC, then would had complained the same? Imo, it's not always how good you are, but also what you have produced. And still playing at 42, Jimmy has produced plenty imo to be an ATG.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Dravid do averages 40+ in Australia. Though with context that definitely isn't really great or even necessarily good; but suck is a big word.
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Are you looking for a front or rear window exit?
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
He averaged 38 against Aus in an era of extremely flat pitches with only 2 hundreds in like 33 games
ataraxia
International Coach
It's bloody valuable to be good in the wrong places.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
That's not good. But not really sucking. Not to mention both of those hundreds are ATGs, especially the Eden one. I will gladly take those two over 8 other ones.
Last edited:
Coronis
International Coach
No? Walsh was excellent in SA
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
But he sucked in Australia. Jimmy's bad performances in SA and Australia are even out by his great to good ones in Asia. And his sheer longevity pushes him an extra mile for me.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
But outside one tour without Mcgrath or Warne, on flat tracks, he was very poor in Aus. Also in SA. Same as Kohli in Eng, or against lateral movement, and at least Kohli proved himself on a tough tour. That's why I also feel Dravid and VK are very close.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Kohli would average like 45 in Eng if he played in the 2000s tbh
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Ponting was rated higher because he was more dominant. Simple as that. Dravid was averaging 50 even in the 90s before his peak, moreso than Ponting. You can't use the peak early argument here at all.
As for Laker, I'll be honest and say I am not sure if even he is an outright ATG tho better than Ashwin to me.
I usually have Warne, Murali, OReilly as clear ATGs but not so sure on Grimmet, Verity, Laker. Underwood I also rate quite highly but again not sure about ATG. Kumble, Ashwin, etc come later.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I don't necessarily disagree on that. But just two points; that tour was very important and he was India's standout batsman. Yes, Kumble's bowling even close to @30 is several tiers above Dravid's @120 odd average; that wasn't some 2018 Kohli level performance. But that doesn't mean that wasn't very valuable. And point two; he only has two centuries against Australia, but both are ATG innings and somewhat underrated imo.
Last edited: