Ashwin - The ATG Spinner

[subshakerz]

no comparison between Ashwin and Kumble

btw, I thought dropping Ashwin was mad and my point is a team mad enough to drop Ashwin is equally mad to drop Murali or Warne.

Come on. Ashwin takes 2 wickets or so per test in England. Look who you are comparing him with.

Warne takes nearly 6 wickets a test and Murali 8 wickets a test there. No captain would be insane enough to drop them because they are actual ATG spinners, unlike Ashwin the disposable.

 

[ma1978]

Sample size for both Ashwin and Murali. Ashwin FAR better than Murali in Australia with a bigger sample size

And if Stuart Macgill could bat like Jadeja over the past five years, Australia may well have played him over Warne

it’s pointless having this argumen. You have a view; it’s a minority one. When Ashwin retires, he will be pretty much universally seen by the cricketing fraternity as the best cricketer of the past decade and an ATG spinner

 

[subshakerz]

Sample size for both Ashwin and Murali. Ashwin FAR better than Murali in Australia with a bigger sample size

Murali barely played in Australia and Ashwin was pretty bad there until only his third tour. And this is besides the point anyways since Ashwin wasn't benched in Australia except for injury. He was benched in England which is why we were discussing that so don't deflect.

And if Stuart Macgill could bat like Jadeja over the past five years, Australia may well have played him over Warne

Not if Warne could bat like Ashwin.

it’s pointless having this argumen. You have a view; it’s a minority one. When Ashwin retires, he will be pretty much universally seen by the cricketing fraternity as the best cricketer of the past decade and an ATG spinner

Thanks for the admission that Ashwin isn't seen as an ATG now, despite taking 500 wickets, which kinda proves my point. You can speculate what you like about his post-retirement reputation.

 

[ma1978]

Btw, how come Warne and Murali’s ATG status isn’t questioned for how they do in India, which is worse than Ashwin’s performance in England or Aus.

 

[ma1978]

Murali barely played in Australia and Ashwin was pretty bad there until only his third tour. And this is besides the point anyways since Ashwin wasn't benched in Australia except for injury. He was in England which is why we were discussing that so don't deflect.


Not if Warne could bat like Ashwin.


Thanks for the admission that Ashwin isn't seen as an ATG now, despite taking 500 wickets, which kinda proves my point. You can speculate what you like about his post-retirement reputation.

that’s completely misinterpreting what I said. He’s absolutely seen as an ATG now but the real press and journalism will come on retirement

 

[ma1978]

B

Murali barely played in Australia and Ashwin was pretty bad there until only his third tour. And this is besides the point anyways since Ashwin wasn't benched in Australia except for injury. He was benched in England which is why we were discussing that so don't deflect.


Not if Warne could bat like Ashwin.


Thanks for the admission that Ashwin isn't seen as an ATG now, despite taking 500 wickets, which kinda proves my point. You can speculate what you like about his post-retirement reputation.

Btw Murali played five tests in Australia, Ashwin seven in England. Murali averaged 75, Ashwin 28.

If you fixate on a hole in his record, you have to judge the others by the same standard and their India hole is larger

 

[subshakerz]

Btw, how come Warne and Murali’s ATG status isn’t questioned for how they do in India, which is worse than Ashwin’s performance in England or Aus.

Because they succeeded in Pak and SL so it's clear they aren't really condition dependent like Ashwin, it's just that India had exceptional batting lineups.

that’s completely misinterpreting what I said. He’s absolutely seen as an ATG now but the real press and journalism will come on retirement

Except he isn't hailed that way at all. Nobody is seriously bracketing him with Murali and Warne, his main reference point has consistently been Lyon actually who he is compared with.

 

[Nintendo]

Ashwin is a Hack. Never taken a wicket in Zimbabwe. Come to Harare then talk big man.

 

[subshakerz]

B


Btw Murali played five tests in Australia, Ashwin seven in England. Murali averaged 75, Ashwin 28.

If you fixate on a hole in his record, you have to judge the others by the same standard and their India hole is larger

You are switching the point. It is about whether Ashwin would be benched as a supposed ATG and hence we brought up England. You said Murali and Warne would also be benched there which is just factually untrue.

 

[ma1978]

You are switching the point. It is about whether Ashwin would be benched as a supposed ATG and hence we brought up England.

a d my point is it was a mad decision to do so.

 

[Nintendo]

You are switching the point. It is about whether Ashwin would be benched as a supposed ATG and hence we brought up England.

Ashwin gets benched because jadeja exists. India don't want to play two spinners in sa/eng, nothing wrong with that.

 

[ma1978]

Because they succeeded in Pak and SL so it's clear they aren't really condition dependent like Ashwin, it's just that India had exceptional batting lineups.


Except he isn't hailed that way at all. Nobody is seriously bracketing him with Murali and Warne, his main reference point has consistently been Lyon actually who he is compared with.

When people properly reflect on his career, he will be in the bracket. He should be in that bracket today.

 

[subshakerz]

a d my point is it was a mad decision to do so.

Whatever but don't bring up Warne and Murali who were far superior to Ashwin in England.

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin gets benched because jadeja exists. India don't want to play two spinners in sa/eng, nothing wrong with that.

Point is if Ashwin was actually an ATG level spinner, benching him should be unthinkable in virtually any country. The fact that he is benched is just a silent admission that Ashwin is just an honest trier outside of SC.

 

[subshakerz]

When people properly reflect on his career, he will be in the bracket. He should be in that bracket today.

Yet he isn't in that bracket in terms of cricket pundit/peer opinion as things stand. So you hope he will be recognized as an ATG someday.

 

[ma1978]

Yet he isn't in that bracket in terms of cricket pundit/peer opinion as things stand. So you hope he will be recognized as an ATG someday.

there’s an article in cricinfo this week making his ATG status clear. Yes he is not seen in the same league yet as the two greatest spinners of all time. He’s absolutely seen as the third

 

[ma1978]

Point is if Ashwin was actually an ATG level spinner, benching him should be unthinkable in virtually any country. The fact that he is benched is just a silent admission that Ashwin is just an honest trier outside of SC.

you believe that if it helps you sleep better at night

 

[subshakerz]

there’s an article in cricinfo this week making his ATG status clear. Yes he is not seen in the same league yet as the two greatest spinners of all time. He’s absolutely seen as the third

Wow Cricinfo have announced it, guess it's official then.

 

[ma1978]

Point is if Ashwin was actually an ATG level spinner, benching him should be unthinkable in virtually any country. The fact that he is benched is just a silent admission that Ashwin is just an honest trier outside of SC.

picking one (generally meaningless) data point and using it to make a spurious argument is exactly how my 10 year olds debate club functions.

 

[ataraxia]

Massive cope to be honest when the simplest explanation is right there.

Oh ok so you think that NZ purposefully rolls out 30 average pitches for SENA spinners and 55 average pitches for SC spinners, I see