Which team is currently the best, in 2023?

[Spark]

this is a weird strawman

who here is doing that????

Nintendo already summarised it perfectly tbh

 

[Arachnodouche]

Aus have lost FOUR consecutive series to India, home and away. That's comprehensive domination. Until they put one over, they're not on anything resembling an equal footing with India.

 

[Socerer 01]

Nintendo already summarised it perfectly tbh

sure WI wouldnt win without Shamar going super saiyan but your team still allowed a team that had an entire top 7 averaging below 35 in test cricket to score 300+ in the 1st innings because of your familiar issue to bowl out the tail and your own team had collapses in both innings when they batted

its silly how results oriented this forum is sometimes but is it unrealistic to say that Australia should have been beating West Indies 9/10 times on paper and that they looked shaky more often than ever in this summer?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Shamar bowling a magnificent spell doesn't mean WI aren't a pretty mediocre team. Australia should be beating them in a series at home every time. Be real ffs.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Shamar bowling a magnificent spell doesn't mean WI aren't a pretty mediocre team. Australia should be beating them in a series at home every time. Be real ffs.

Yeah he's a total outlier in that outfit. Guy looked like a thoroughbred among amateurs.

 

[Nintendo]

Australia lost that game BECAUSE of Joseph, lol. The pitch had been dead after the new ball for three innings before that and none of the guys at the other end in that spell caused half the issue Joseph did. By the last few overs the plan from Australia had become "play Joseph out, smash every ball the guy at the other bowls for 4."

I don't think anyone on here is directly saying the Joseph spell was bad, more that the whole "LOL Australia lost to.the West Indies" thing is disrespectful to Joseph. Australia's batting has been shaky since the last wtc final, but Australia likely chase that target fairly easily if shaman Joseph doesn't go God mode.

 

[Nintendo]

sure WI wouldnt win without Shamar going super saiyan but your team still allowed a team that had an entire top 7 averaging below 35 in test cricket to score 300+ in the 1st innings because of your familiar issue to bowl out the tail and your own team had collapses in both innings when they batted

its silly how results oriented this forum is sometimes but is it unrealistic to say that Australia should have been beating West Indies 9/10 times on paper and that they looked shaky more often than ever in this summer?

Just like how India let SA make 400 and beat them by an innings when there only batsmen averaging 40+ was out injured, or like how India let ollie Pope make 196 and steal a test off them? These things happen to both teams ffs.

 

[OverratedSanity]

India failed to win in SA twice playing a lineup with Jansen at 7 and two and a half batsmen and got smashed last time they toured nz. If the England series was a two match series like the windies where India also would have failed to beat England at home.

India are the better overall team, but these goalposts your setting are really weird, and the whole windies thing is frankly disrespectful to shamar Joseph. Dude produced one of the greatest spells of fast bowling by a touring pacer in AUS with a broken toe and people are looking back on that series like "lol, u lost to the windies."

Brother your first paragraph in the post is literally "lol, u lost to SA" while giving them no credit for beating India.

 

[Socerer 01]

Just like how India let SA make 400 and beat them by an innings when there only batsmen averaging 40+ was out injured, or like how India let ollie Pope make 196 and steal a test off them? These things happen to both teams ffs.

my entire post was about that cmon

but you cant be seriously comparing playing against South Africa away and Bazball England at home to West Indies at home?

 

[OverratedSanity]

WI are not a good team. Stop pretending otherwise. Australia not beating them is a big failure. This is just a weird line of posting, no ones saying Joseph's spell wasn't incredible.

 

[Nintendo]

WI are not a good team. Stop pretending otherwise. Australia not beating them is a big failure. This is just a weird line of posting, no ones saying Joseph's spell wasn't incredible.

Show me where i said anything resembling "the west indies are a good team." Australia losing a test on the back of an ATG spell is as bad as India dropping a test to an atg knock from Pope, or the SA loss. The latter two are harder games but you still expect India to win them, especially when India post a par total in SA and bavuma is injured, or India have a massive first innings lead and England lose early wickets.

When green and smith where in and Green was smashing it on a deck where batting was piss easy past over 20 for three in innings, Australia should win that game fairly easy.

Treating the windies win as an afterthought or going "LOL, Australia lost to the windies" seriously disrespects Joseph's spell. Doing that is treating the win like a shame on Australia, and not a freak result bought about by a goat spell of fast bowling.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Treating the windies win as an afterthought or going "LOL, Australia lost to the windies" seriously disrespects Joseph's spell. Doing that is treating the win like a shame on Australia, and not a freak result bought about by a goat spell of fast bowling.

It is both, thank you.

 

[Nintendo]

my entire post was about that cmon

but you cant be seriously comparing playing against South Africa away and Bazball England at home to West Indies at home?

I agree with your second paragraph, FYI. I think it's completely fair to compare the three situations given what I discussed in my last post. The SA loss isn't as severe but it's still an example of India losing from a position I would have felt comfortable calling them favourites in.

 

[Nintendo]

It is both, thank you.

How can it be both? It's not like Australia lost to Roston chase taking an 8fer, something like that would never happen to any top three nation...

 

[Arachnodouche]

I get both povs tbh. On paper and even in the context of that game, Aus should never be losing to WI at home. But Shamar's spell could also have humbled quite literally any team in history, it was that good and that much a force of nature. So eh, it was just a glorious afternoon of cricket, reputations be damned.

 

[Socerer 01]

I agree with your second paragraph, FYI. I think it's completely fair to compare the three situations given what I discussed in my last post. The SA loss isn't as severe but it's still an example of India losing from a position I would have felt comfortable calling them favourites in.

idk why you would think that though, we lost 2 matches in the previous series, we were coming off a heartbreaking world cup final loss and looked mentally drained and we were carrying passengers in that team while playing Ashwin at 7

we needed a great 100 from Rahul to even post a respectable total and by the time Elgar left they were already over 100 runs in the lead

 

[OverratedSanity]

I get both povs tbh. On paper and even in the context of that game, Aus should never be losing to WI at home. But Shamar's spell could also have humbled quite literally any team in history, it was that good. So eh, it was just a glorious afternoon of cricket, reputations be damned.

Sure but it's kinda like saying England losing to Ireland in the 2011 WC wasn't an embarrassing loss because KoB played one of the ATG ODI innings. Losing to a poor team is a failure for any big team even if it took freak performances to do it.

 

[PaulLennon]

india drew their last series in sa. they came back strongly in the next match.

aus got their two best batsmen banned and lost 1-3.

aus couldn't even beat wi at home, who india whitewash at home.

aus could only draw in sl and bang, places where india whitewash them.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Sure but it's kinda like saying England losing to Ireland in the 2011 WC wasn't an embarrassing loss because KoB played one of the ATG ODI innings. Losing to a poor team is a failure for any big team even if it took freak performances to do it.

But that's an evaluation that can be made properly only in the aftermath. And it depends on the manner in which the team that was considered superior at the outset loses. If you lose to a minnow in a reckless, overconfident manner, then sure you deserve to be pilloried and ridiculed. What I'm saying though is that Shamar's bowling was literally leagues above anything else WI had on offer and it would've knocked out even the most lauded of batting line-ups, not due to overconfidence but because of the disparity in skills on that afternoon when for all intents and purposes, Joseph was single-handedly channeling the intensity of an entire Windies quartet of the past. Not sure you can hold that against Australia.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Honestly I don't know if I'd call that Ireland loss embarrassing either, it was just a freak match-winning innings that can happen in an ODI.