Ashwin - The ATG Spinner

[honestbharani]

Oh it was like the perfect pitch for Lyon but if that was a tactic that they've been saving for Australia then they're idiots.

No one has made this point.

 

[ma1978]

Much of Ashwin’s career, esp when matured as a bowler, has come at a time when India has rolled out ATG (in aggregate numbers, it’s up with the best over) pace bowling in SENA. And he has been pivotal in Australia when India didn’t have that group.

 

[Xix2565]

The fact that Harmer and Maharaj ran through Bangladesh but Maharaj is a batter vs India says enough. Anything otherwise is a big bitch fit by pace lovers.

 

[Ali TT]

Ah, now I know that the Aussies have been scheduling Ashes tours to nullify England's huge spin threat. Yet further moral victories for England.

RSA being a spinners' graveyard isn't an India specific thing either.

Dom Bess says hi.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

The GOAT spinner is me actually, I just never got picked because every opposition team rolled out a pitch to nullify me.

 

[honestbharani]

India don't get the most spin friendly deck in NZ because they never come during holiday season.

You want the mount, play here at Christmas or new years.

Chch generally has good weather later in summer so your odds of arguably the least friendly pitch to spin in the world increase astronomically the later you tour, especially since it's our only South Island test venue and a fantastic facility.

I actually dunno why we dont tour NZ the same time we tour Aus. We end up playing most of our home games in Sep-Nov or Jan-Mar anyways. But I thought we did play Boxing Day tests in NZ?

 

[Spark]

@Spark - if your point is, this is the first time we are playing a 5 test series and therefore, with no other teams visiting, the tests are laid out like this, then its fine. I remember us playing Adelaide first in both our last two tours there.

And of course teams are not obligated to roll out tracks that turn. Its their prerogative to prepare whatever tracks they want. But it doesn't mean its not a fact that RSA and NZ especially, and Eng at times, have gone out of their way to ensure tracks do not assist spin even a little bit when India tours there. Its an important factor to keep in mind when doing biased spredsheet analysis to diss the Indian spinners like one poster keeps doing all the time every day here on CW.

Tbh I'd agree with you on England, they don't cop anywhere near as much scrutiny for their blatant made-to-order pitches to suit the current team's strengths as they should. Been a thing for going on a decade now.

 

[honestbharani]

The GOAT spinner is me actually, I just never got picked because every opposition team rolled out a pitch to nullify me.

lol @ the copium.

 

[TheJediBrah]

RTB is just butthurt

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

I'm shaking over cricketer rankings tbh

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

RTB is just butthurt

Ow, my butt!

 

[Xix2565]

Also grass in NZ = pace and carry. You don't want another sad boi draw at the Basin do you?

We could get a result out of it tbh.

 

[Flem274*]

HB if nz were going to hide the turn until India came along, nz would have spammed the secret turn against SA full strength in particular.

Eden Park, Basin and Hagley just aren't spinners grounds. We're like a hybrid of Aus an SA conditions, so it's no surprise Lyon is the foreign spinner who does well here.

It's not like Ajaz gets big overs in NZ either, which he would if spin was regularly expected.

The Mount get their test in the holidays because it's a beach town and NZC would love India here for Christmas. The mount is there if India want it.

And as explained, NZ pitches need grass on days 1 and 2 or they're slow low draws. NZ are more interested in fun games and result pitches to get people watching than they are targeting India.

We could get a result out of it tbh.

It was reference to the mccullum game. An nz deck that looks normal day 1 will be an Uber highway.

 

[Flem274*]

Oh it was like the perfect pitch for Lyon but if that was a tactic that they've been saving for Australia then they're idiots. I think what happened was that they let the pitch dry out far too much in the lead-up and massively overwatered it in the days leading up to the game, hence all the inconsistent bounce and seam we saw early, but the top drying out meant the surface underneath took a ton of turn.

Yeah. The Basin has a rep for being borderline later on in the game for getting a result, so they probably went way too hard on ensuring it would be an interesting pitch for cricket. Tbf they succeeded, but probably more than expected.

 

[honestbharani]

NZ are more interested in fun games and result pitches to get people watching than they are targeting India.

I dunno coz the same tracks turn more when other teams visit and you also play a spinner? Anyways, its fair enough IMO if you feel your best chance to get a result is to prepare a certain type of wicket. Its just that needs to be contextualized when judging players' performances.

If, as you say, those tracks never turn, then fair enough. Although, and I dont have the time to do the research right now, I suspect its more the former. And honestly, beating anyone at home can be a priority for the home team and their board. Absolutely no qualms with that as it shows they still give a **** about test cricket results.

 

[Xix2565]

All spinners' records in NZ vs South Africa/England/Australia Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2;team=3;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

17 Tests, 129 wickets at avg of 29.31, SR of 59.0

All spinners' records in NZ vs India/Bangladesh/Pakistan/Sri Lanka Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

18 Tests, 67 wickets at avg of 55.59, SR of 94.8

Pretty ****ing wild lol.

 

[TheJediBrah]

All spinners' records in NZ vs South Africa/England/Australia Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2;team=3;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

17 Tests, 129 wickets at avg of 29.31, SR of 59.0

All spinners' records in NZ vs India/Bangladesh/Pakistan/Sri Lanka Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

18 Tests, 67 wickets at avg of 55.59, SR of 94.8

Pretty ****ing wild lol.

Damn HB was right

NZ have questions to answer

 

[Flem274*]

All spinners' records in NZ vs South Africa/England/Australia Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2;team=3;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

17 Tests, 129 wickets at avg of 29.31, SR of 59.0

All spinners' records in NZ vs India/Bangladesh/Pakistan/Sri Lanka Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

18 Tests, 67 wickets at avg of 55.59, SR of 94.8

Pretty ****ing wild lol.

Have you tried bowling better then?

Hagley and The Basin are Hagley and The Basin. They don't change much. Anyone who watches the games and the often 5 seamers NZ pick can attest to it.

I dunno coz the same tracks turn more when other teams visit and you also play a spinner? Anyways, its fair enough IMO if you feel your best chance to get a result is to prepare a certain type of wicket. Its just that needs to be contextualized when judging players' performances.

If, as you say, those tracks never turn, then fair enough. Although, and I dont have the time to do the research right now, I suspect its more the former. And honestly, beating anyone at home can be a priority for the home team and their board. Absolutely no qualms with that as it shows they still give a **** about test cricket results.

We've played Santner once this summer, at the Mount, where India never play. Australia played Lyon and SA Piedt/Brand, who bowled well.

There is no grand conspiracy here. Ajaz is more than good enough to fire it in the general direction of some South Africans on a Day 5 turner for some cheap poles. Based on Phillips' bowling, maybe we should have rarked up the deck to even out the difference between Santner/Ajaz and Lyon and played both.

 

[srbhkshk]

All spinners' records in NZ vs South Africa/England/Australia Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2;team=3;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

17 Tests, 129 wickets at avg of 29.31, SR of 59.0

All spinners' records in NZ vs India/Bangladesh/Pakistan/Sri Lanka Tests in NZ since March 2015: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

18 Tests, 67 wickets at avg of 55.59, SR of 94.8

Pretty ****ing wild lol.

Be ready for a nice little contortion act here. The explanation will range anywhere from Indian spinners are **** to it just naturally happens that the sc teams played on wickets worse for spinners


Main thing to remember is that NZ definitely absolutely do not do this of their volition. Everything else is responsible.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Be ready for a nice little contortion act here. The explanation will range anywhere from Indian spinners are **** to it just naturally happens that the sc teams played on wickets worse for spinners

Those are the best you could come up with? I can think of a couple way better ones.

- Asian teams are better at playing spin so they make more runs against the NZ spinners, whereas even Glenn Phillips takes 5/40 against touring teams like Australia
- Asian spinners aren't used to bowling on non-Asian wickets whereas SENA spinners are so they do better in NZ