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*Official* Australia tour of New Zealand Feb-Mar 2024

thundaboult

thundaboult

International Debutant
btw...its been a 100 tests of tim southee, so how do we feel about his legacy?

for me the first phrase that comes to mind with him is "always blowing hot and cold" ....unfortunately
 
Moss

Moss

International Captain
thundaboult said:
btw...its been a 100 tests of tim southee, so how do we feel about his legacy?

for me the first phrase that comes to mind with him is "always blowing hot and cold" ....unfortunately
Click to expand...
If we’re talking test cricket alone he’s generally been close to, if not right up there with the best among his peers. While he’s sometimes notably gone missing, like in Australia 2015, the way he turned around a generally poor test career in 2012 to become leader of the attack in less than a year was quite something. Been very good since, and NZ have usually missed him when he’s not been around due to injuries. Very respectable in Asia too.

I have a lot less time for Southee the white ball bowler (though he’s been surprisingly resilient in T20 and somehow enjoyed favour with IPL sides), and I wish he’d followed Anderson’s example of ditching the shorter formats and working more on his red-ball craft, but I guess that’s not a practical choice for a NZer. Despite the recent decline, we should be thankful for his efforts in NZ’s revival since the dark days of captaincygate in 2012-13.
 
Nintendo

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Australia: Lose the toss and bowl; bowl nz out for 162, 124/4 trailing by 38 at the end of the day.

Headline: Smith sinks to 10 year low as Aussies exposed.

Like are these journos watching the same game we are?
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
thundaboult said:
btw...its been a 100 tests of tim southee, so how do we feel about his legacy?

for me the first phrase that comes to mind with him is "always blowing hot and cold" ....unfortunately
Click to expand...
He's an NZ great. Did he achieve all that he should have? No. Is he a distant third in the Soultner ranks? Yes. Is he one of NZ's top 5 bowlers? Also yes.
 
thundaboult

thundaboult

International Debutant
on that note, for the 100 with kane the phrase that comes to mind automatically is "one of our best ever" ....although in 2015-ish my expectation was more along the lines of "our best ever"

sadly after 2018 his performances against the the big teams (especially away) have dipped, felt he was much better on away tracks before then

despite that, wouldn't even dare thinking of dropping him...EVER, which is a lot different to timmy
 
thundaboult

thundaboult

International Debutant
Moss said:
If we’re talking test cricket alone he’s generally been close to, if not right up there with the best among his peers. While he’s sometimes notably gone missing, like in Australia 2015, the way he turned around a generally poor test career in 2012 to become leader of the attack in less than a year was quite something. Been very good since, and NZ have usually missed him when he’s not been around due to injuries. Very respectable in Asia too.

I have a lot less time for Southee the white ball bowler (though he’s been surprisingly resilient in T20 and somehow enjoyed favour with IPL sides), and I wish he’d followed Anderson’s example of ditching the shorter formats and working more on his red-ball craft, but I guess that’s not a practical choice for a NZer. Despite the recent decline, we should be thankful for his efforts in NZ’s revival since the dark days of captaincygate in 2012-13.
Click to expand...
yeah good point, also remember him being pretty poor in tests from mid 2015 to end of 2016, and i remember us facing aussies twice (home and away), india away, eng and sa away in that period....kinda just defines him really....didn't kick on at the biggest/toughest of stages
 
thundaboult

thundaboult

International Debutant
Bahnz said:
He's an NZ great. Did he achieve all that he should have? No. Is he a distant third in the Soultner ranks? Yes. Is he one of NZ's top 5 bowlers? Also yes.
Click to expand...
assuming bond, boult, wagner, hadlee being the better ones? vettori another long-timer but a bowling average of 34 for him
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
thundaboult said:
assuming bond, boult, wagner, hadlee being the better ones? vettori another long-timer but a bowling average of 34 for him
Click to expand...
Hadlee, Boult, Wagner, Southee, Vettori. Bond a potentially great bowler, but imo if you can't make it to 100 wickets in the modern era you don't belong in the ranks.
 
Moss

Moss

International Captain
thundaboult said:
yeah good point, also remember him being pretty poor in tests from mid 2015 to end of 2016, and i remember us facing aussies twice (home and away), india away, eng and sa away in that period....kinda just defines him really....didn't kick on at the biggest/toughest of stages
Click to expand...
The period you’re referring to coincided with a crazy workload for him and Boult. All those tests and ODIs leading up to the WC, IPL immediately after that, England tour after that (including a bunch of ODIs) etc. Unsurprisingly he was injured and didn’t make the India tour in 2016. If that period really defines him, I’d blame a fair bit on workload management.
 
King Kane

King Kane

International Regular
thundaboult said:
btw...its been a 100 tests of tim southee, so how do we feel about his legacy?

for me the first phrase that comes to mind with him is "always blowing hot and cold" ....unfortunately
Click to expand...
He is good enough to be an all time great NZ cricketer but not good enough to be an all time great world cricketer like Hadlee but not many are.

He would be in our top few test bowlers of all time, you could argue that Shane Bond was a better test bowler but Southee beats him for longevity.

I thought he could be our next great all rounder when he smashed that 77 no against England on test debut but his batting went downhill from there.
 
Moss

Moss

International Captain
HeathDavisSpeed said:
The less said about his batting, the better.

Definitely best to confine his legacy to his bowling where despite recent diminished returns, he has still been adequate.
Click to expand...
No question his batting influence (if not legacy) has been a terrible one on an otherwise capable NZ tail, best summed up by Boult skying one to third man when NZ were trying to save the 2015 Lords test.
 
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