*Official* Australia tour of New Zealand Feb-Mar 2024

[anonymouskefe]

NZ sports teams have shown for years that for all the nice guy talk, the worst thing you can do is obstruct the team from winning. If you obstruct a woman from having a full set of teeth or being ***ually safe, that's fine as long as you make it to training.

NZC have traded/hidden behind being likeable as their brand, and they fall back on it when the team is poor.

What do you do when you're the baddies and you're not playing well? The opposition has a world class, good looking captain who uses his position to speak truth to power.

You've ****ed up NZC. You've ****ed up.

When the ABs lose a test countless questions are asked of the coach and captain this blackcaps team has won only 2 test series since wtc 2021 against Sri Lanka and understrength SA both at home and yet come under barely any scrutiny because we "can't expect to win them all"

 

[SteveNZ]

Pretty sure I said this when he was made captain, but having the skipper bat like he's had most of his grey matter removed sets the tone for the rest of the lower order too. If they get out playing a rash stroke, then all the justification needed is there in Southee. I've had issues with this for years and years, but it becomes worse when he's responsible for setting the team culture.

Yep, couldn't agree more. Leadership is about accountability and setting an example, which he does zero of with the bat. It's a subpar mentality that he sets for the lower order. And you can bet if you asked him about it (which no one ever does in our sport) he'd say it's the best way for him to play, which is rubbish. How would he know, anyway, when he's only ever played one way - slogging?

 

[Spark]

Yep, couldn't agree more. Leadership is about accountability and setting an example, which he does zero of with the bat. It's a subpar mentality that he sets for the lower order. And you can bet if you asked him about it (which no one ever does in our sport) he'd say it's the best way for him to play, which is rubbish. How would he know, anyway, when he's only ever played one way - slogging?

Yeah it's a massive contrast with how Cummins - who hadn't exactly been batting with any authority for years - has applied himself with the stick in the last year. I don't know if captaincy has been the best thing for his bowling but it's clear that leadership has made him take his job with the bat a lot more seriously and even if he's batting #9, he's still expected to do a job for the team.

 

[SteveNZ]

Anyway, some positives just to make sure the mood doesn't seem completely funereal. Phillips isn't scared of Australia, Henry is world class, Rachin (who I hope they never turn back into an opener) can play and will mature, and um....the Basin is a magnificent ground

 

[TheJediBrah]

A lot of talk about NZ playing badly, and it's warranted, but Australia were pretty bad apart from 2 players. You'd expect them to come back a lot better next game

 

[Spark]

A lot of talk about NZ playing badly, and it's warranted, but Australia were pretty bad apart from 2 players. You'd expect them to come back a lot better next game

The quicks were okay tbf. Just didn't end up having to do a lot.

But yeah when half your team's runs in the match comes from one guy and next top score beyond him is the nightwatchman, that ain't great.maths is hard

 

[Dick Rockett]

And poor old Jesse Ryder. He must look at someone like the SP playing and wonder how what he did was enough to make him persona non grata.

Jesse Ryder didn't have the benefit of being identified early and mentored out of the life circumstances into which he was born, like Ross Taylor did. He didn't tow the line and the system decided bad headlines weren't worth the meagre investment they'd put into him so he was cast adrift, as if we can afford to squander talent like Ryder's.

But hey, let's die on a hill defending a guy who at best is a spare part and at worst a low down filthy criminal.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah it's a massive contrast with how Cummins - who hadn't exactly been batting with any authority for years - has applied himself with the stick in the last year. I don't know if captaincy has been the best thing for his bowling but it's clear that leadership has made him take his job with the bat a lot more seriously and even if he's batting #9, he's still expected to do a job for the team.

Pat Cummins is all I wish we had as a leader. He's a magnificent person - whether you believe in his off field message or whatever else, he's the epitome of a captain.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Agree re Southee and the lower order.

Tbh one of my favourite memories of the last 10 years was when CDG, Sodhi, and Wagner defended their way to a test draw and series win over England in Chch.

 

[GotSpin]

A lot of talk about NZ playing badly, and it's warranted, but Australia were pretty bad apart from 2 players. You'd expect them to come back a lot better next game

That middle order is just awful. Full of misfiring hitters

 

[SteveNZ]

Jesse Ryder didn't have the benefit of being identified early and mentored out of the life circumstances into which he was born, like Ross Taylor did. He didn't tow the line and the system decided bad headlines weren't worth the meagre investment they'd put into him, so he was cast adrift.

As if we can afford to squander talent like Ryder's. But hey, let's die on a hill defending a guy who at best is a spare part and at worst a low down filthy criminal.

I don't get the comparison between Ryder and the guy at no.8. Ryder was ousted, rightly, because they couldn't rely on him to prepare himself sufficiently for international cricket. They had to set standards and have a culture that couldn't make allowances for one loose cannon, even if he was a once in a lifetime talent. And anyone who says he wasn't supported enough, isn't aware of what went on in that environment. Hell, the night that sealed it when he went out in Auckland, a player was out as his minder. Is that sustainable?

So I don't see the comparison between him and the no.8 on this batting card, who should've been convicted but left out of this side for other cultural reasons. But he's mates with Southee so it's not an issue

 

[Flem274*]

I love Pat Cummins. Us boring nerds in the backroom would love an hour with him to talk the things he cares about, and give him the hard stats so he can let loose.

He's an amazing figure for communicating the reality of the world we live in, which is becoming increasingly difficult in an era where people are willing to sacrifice everything they have to own the nerds.

 

[East Bay Ray]

Anyway, some positives just to make sure the mood doesn't seem completely funereal. Phillips isn't scared of Australia, Henry is world class, Rachin (who I hope they never turn back into an opener) can play and will mature, and um....the Basin is a magnificent ground

Got to agree with that. Great size, Great history, Looked beautiful, and i thought the pitch was excellent for test cricket.
It had plenty for seamers and spinners, with bounce.
It was meant to get easier to bat on and by the looks it did...its just that the batting from both teams got worse over time.
I luv a 250 deck for test matches. Always good to watch.

 

[Spark]

That middle order is just awful. Full of misfiring hitters

It feels super harsh after the year, and he even made an important contribution in this game, he's had but man I just don't know if MMarsh is it long term. It just doesn't feel secure.

Carey is absolutely on his last chance IMO. Looks so far from being up to it right now with the bat it isn't funny and it makes that entire part of the batting order look extremely brittle.

Biggest problem is still the black hole that's formed at #3 though.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I don't get the comparison between Ryder and the guy at no.8. Ryder was ousted, rightly, because they couldn't rely on him to prepare himself sufficiently for international cricket. They had to set standards and have a culture that couldn't make allowances for one loose cannon, even if he was a once in a lifetime talent. And anyone who says he wasn't supported enough, isn't aware of what went on in that environment. Hell, the night that sealed it when he went out in Auckland, a player was out as his minder. Is that sustainable?

So I don't see the comparison between him and the no.8 on this batting card, who should've been convicted but left out of this side for other cultural reasons. But he's mates with Southee so it's not an issue

If you have insider knowledge of what support Jesse Ryder got beyond what we all know from media reports, then please share it. Because what I saw was a poor kid with alcohol problems and a parasitic entourage who got half-arsed "support" from the system when it was already far too late.

Personally I can't help but contrast that with the leash that the likes of Chris Cairns got over the years, but then perhaps he was just lucky to be born cricket royalty in an era before ubiquitous cameras and social media.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It feels super harsh after the year, and he even made an important contribution in this game, he's had but man I just don't know if MMarsh is it long term. It just doesn't feel secure.

Carey is absolutely on his last chance IMO. Looks so far from being up to it right now with the bat it isn't funny and it makes that entire part of the batting order look extremely brittle.

Biggest problem is still the black hole that's formed at #3 though.

I'm more worried about T.Head tbh. Gone from looking awful but miraculously still making scores, to looking awful and being awful

 

[quincywagstaff]

They also have a lower order who are prepared to work hard for a set batsman and to do the best for the team. Somehow our captain has received a free pass to bat like a ****wit in any situation for the last 16 years, because once a decade he makes a score like Napier 08 or Basin 23. Makes you wonder.

I kniw he's had a fine career overall, but Southee has been a constant disappointment against Oz - career bowling average of 43 against them.

Seems like he peaked in his against them @ the Gabba in 08/09 when he got Ponting, Katich & Hayden in his opening spell. Only the Perth 19/20 has he statistically done well against Oz since.

Having him captain for the first time against a side he's not stood up against seemed like a bad move imo.

 

[Nintendo]

It feels super harsh after the year, and he even made an important contribution in this game, he's had but man I just don't know if MMarsh is it long term. It just doesn't feel secure.

Carey is absolutely on his last chance IMO. Looks so far from being up to it right now with the bat it isn't funny and it makes that entire part of the batting order look extremely brittle.

Biggest problem is still the black hole that's formed at #3 though.

Don't see it get mentioned enough, but he's had a marnus esque run of luck during this form patch. Pakistan dropped him a million times and england dropped him a fair few times.

 

[morgieb]

Carey is absolutely on his last chance IMO. Looks so far from being up to it right now with the bat it isn't funny and it makes that entire part of the batting order look extremely brittle.

Has been averaging 21 since stumping gate. I get that he's had the odd decent innings since then but that just plain doesn't cut it for #7.

 

[social]

Yeah it's a massive contrast with how Cummins - who hadn't exactly been batting with any authority for years - has applied himself with the stick in the last year. I don't know if captaincy has been the best thing for his bowling but it's clear that leadership has made him take his job with the bat a lot more seriously and even if he's batting #9, he's still expected to do a job for the team.

Cummins has an incredible temperament

Morphs from a complete bunny to very good lower order player almost as required