capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I am pretty sure it was a joke..... Right? RIGHTTTTTT!!???
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Richards, Smith, Lara, Hammond
- Thread starter kyear2
- Start date
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Lara doesn’t have as complete a record as Viv, a problem against high pace and got to cash in on the 2000s.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Nah, I am not pulling a Prince vs Viv now.....
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Yea I don’t think he’s an ATG. But he is lethal in England as a bowler and counts as quality pace at home.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Lara vs Smith is more interesting frankly
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Lara vs Smith..... I also rank them back to back, so think it's closer; while there are 2 batsmen between Viv and Smith for me.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
For me, Smith has to average around where he is now, to rank above Viv. That would mean he has maintained an average of 50+ from 2018, and that will be good enough
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Btw, guys, I will be taking your absence for a couple of weeks. Got some interviews coming up, which require total attention. Thanks for the time spent debating about one of the things we are all equally mad about.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
All the best for the interviews Hou! Pretty confident you would crack it; have experienced your convincing skills first hand!!
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Take care.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah I was in line with putting Smith as best after Bradman until last year where it seems his decline has started. I expect Smith to end up averaging around 55 which means for me he will be behind Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Viv and around with Hobbs.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Oh no..... Now a debate on how Hobbs is only second to Bradman (okay, probably Grace also; different debate) looks pretty much looming.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Tendulkar, Hobbs, Sobers, Viv and Smith are to me number ones of their respective eras and you can make good cases for either being best after Bradman.
Good Luck
Coronis
International Coach
Thought he did ok in 2019 too.
kyear2
International Coach
If the kid (and I sincerely pray that he doesn't) turns into Fidel Edwards after this, or that's his only great performance that ever has, he and the performance is going to be framed differently through the lens of history than is he runs into the next Maco.
And please understand I'm not saying it wasn't an absolutely fabulous knock, but if you're framing it as one of the ATG innings, it requires that little bit extra in my mind. We were supposed to get white washed in that series, and the kid had one test under his belt, so yes, context would matter.
And I think that @Coronis thinks I'm using this to down grade Smith, nothing of the sort. I think the guy is equal to the other two and a tier above Hammond. If I have to rank them in order he's right in the middle between the other two.
But "part" of what made the 153* great was that we were the weaker team, facing two ATG's to win a match against the odds. All that played into it.
Fabulous innings, hell yeah. One of the ATG ones, that's yet to be decided in my mind. The opening bit though and carrying the bat was special though, and the acceleration at the end.
Coronis
International Coach
Thats why I don’t rate McCabe’s 187.
Slifer
International Captain
No no and no. That '76 series Viv averaged 'only' 39 but it made him the player he'd become. No modern batsman including Smith would've done any better. The attacks seem similar on paper but Tommo was in G mode and Lillee, him, Walker, Gilmour were downright trying to hurt people. 8 ball overs with unlimited bouncers, minimal protection, full boundaries and a crowd egging them on for blood.
No attack Smith faced tested him physically, or psychologically the way that '76 attack tested the WI. Read up on them b4 making these types of comments please.
As for the Indian comments people need to get it through their skulls that Qadir and Qasim weren't atg overall but they certainly were great in Pakistan; similar to a Broad. Plus Imran that's as good an attack as the one Smith made runs against.
Slifer
International Captain
Yeah Smith had me when he was going at 60+ and with almost 30 tons in 80 something tests. Now, he's come back to earth and looks like he'll end up averaging similar to the Sobers et al. Still great, still in the convo for 2nd best but not indisputably the 2nd best.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
On that series, Lloyd was WI's highest scorer, Viv, Fredericks and Kalicharan did very similarly. I understand that the conditions were as opposable as possible, I have did infact read on that series; though that I felt like was the type of bowling WI mastered afterwards really..... Yeah, on the series, I meant it as Viv didn't really dominated them back then, and the series looks moderately successful in comparison to other ATG ones.