Richards, Smith, Lara, Hammond

[Prince EWS]

Isn't that the consensus?

Would be the popular opinion that those were the top four, yeah. Order of 2-4 would vary.

 

[kyear2]

Would be the popular opinion that those were the top four, yeah. Order of 2-4 would vary.

Order definitely up in the air.

Bradman - Tendulkar - Sobers - Hobbs would be my order, but I imagine many have Sir Jack 2nd

 

[kyear2]

Thought Richards or Smith would be leading this, wouldn't have even guessed the Prince.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Isn't that the consensus?

I don’t think Sobers is definitively ahead of Viv. Viv has a clearly more balanced record, the SE factor, the best short term peak of any player, and dominated more ATG/ATVG bowler than any .

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Order definitely up in the air.

Bradman - Tendulkar - Sobers - Hobbs would be my order, but I imagine many have Sir Jack 2nd

Agree with Tendulkar and Hobbs being ahead of others in the best after Bradman discussion. Richard next best, then Sobers and Smith for me

 

[kyear2]

I don’t think Sobers is definitively ahead of Viv. Viv has a clearly more balanced record, the SE factor, the best short term peak of any player, and dominated more ATG/ATVG bowler than any .

.Sobers faced his share of greats. Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud, Underwood, Trueman, Snow, the Quartet, Lillee etc....

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

.Sobers faced his share of greats. Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud, Underwood, Trueman, Snow, the Quartet, Lillee etc....

Agreed. But Viv dominated(or had favourable records) against Lillee, Thomson, Imran, Qadir, the Quartet, Kapil, Hadlee, Willis, Botham, Underwood. More impressive collection of bowling for me. Also did it in a tougher era. Plus Sobers and Viv are in the same tier for me. That’s all.

 

[kyear2]

Agreed. But Viv dominated(or had favourable records) against Lillee, Thomson, Imran, Qadir, the Quartet, Kapil, Hadlee, Willis, Botham, Underwood. More impressive collection of bowling for me. Also did it in a tougher era. Plus Sobers and Viv are in the same tier for me. That’s all.

Not disagreeing with you at all, just framing the other side of the argument. I agree Viv played against and dominated the best collection of bowlers ever. I agree that it counts who you do it against, I just have Viv 5th, so no big difference.

I think that Lara and Smith are also both brilliant

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Not disagreeing with you at all, just framing the other side of the argument. I agree Viv played against and dominated the best collection of bowlers ever. I agree that it counts who you do it against, I just have Viv 5th, so no big difference.

I think that Lara and Smith are also both brilliant

Fair enough. Lara’s my all time personal favourite

 

[subshakerz]

Viv had the greatest batting peak ever. I went for him.

Lara's weakness against high pace and less well-rounded record holds him back.

Smith depends on how he does in his last few years. If he drops and ends up with a mid-50s average, I will still go for Viv.

 

[Himannv]

Tbf BCL was pretty uncomfortable vs pace as well...but Lara did make runs vs the goat (worst 2nd greatest) pace bowler ie McGrath.

Was he really that bad against pace? I didn't feel he was too troubled by quick bowling, although you could argue his genius was on show more against spin.

 

[subshakerz]

Was he really that bad against pace? I didn't feel he was too troubled by quick bowling, although you could argue his genius was on show more against spin.

He was bad relative to other ATGs. His technique with the high back lift and trouble with eye sight got him in trouble.

 

[Himannv]

Viv had the greatest batting peak ever. I went for him.

I'm curious what his peak was. The reason I ask is that we had a draft on this forum sometime back to select players based on their peaks. I picked Viv, but struggled to really pick a peak for him where his average was significantly high compared to others of his ilk. There were players who were averaging 70 for a good potion of their careers, but I couldn't quite find a peak like that for Viv, although that could be due to some other restriction in the draft.

I'm not downplaying anything he did for the record, and I think he may well be the best of this lot, but I don't know if a peak would be the reason for him to be ahead of the rest. I incidentally picked Hammond in the same draft and he averaged 75 ish over a passable number of games at a point in his career.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm curious what his peak was. The reason I ask is that we had a draft on this forum sometime back to select players based on their peaks. I picked Viv, but struggled to really pick a peak for him where his average was significantly high compared to others of his ilk. There were players who were averaging 70 for a good potion of their careers, but I couldn't quite find a peak like that for Viv, although that could be due to some other restriction in the draft.

I'm not downplaying anything he did for the record, and I think he may well be the best of this lot, but I don't know if a peak would be the reason for him to be ahead of the rest. I incidentally picked Hammond in the same draft and he averaged 75 ish over a passable number of games at a point in his career.

Viv between 76 and 81 averaged over 70 against a host of great/good bowlers, at a SR of likely around 70 too.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I'm curious what his peak was. The reason I ask is that we had a draft on this forum sometime back to select players based on their peaks. I picked Viv, but struggled to really pick a peak for him where his average was significantly high compared to others of his ilk. There were players who were averaging 70 for a good potion of their careers, but I couldn't quite find a peak like that for Viv, although that could be due to some other restriction in the draft.

I'm not downplaying anything he did for the record, and I think he may well be the best of this lot, but I don't know if a peak would be the reason for him to be ahead of the rest. I incidentally picked Hammond in the same draft and he averaged 75 ish over a passable number of games at a point in his career.

74.7 for a stretch from 1976-81(insane SR, and the major performer key victories in Aus, Eng, Pak against some great bowlers). Insane peak considering the era and record maintained across conditions. 3400 runs in 32 matches, 12 hundreds

 

[Himannv]

Good stuff. Cheers.

 

[Coronis]

I'm curious what his peak was. The reason I ask is that we had a draft on this forum sometime back to select players based on their peaks. I picked Viv, but struggled to really pick a peak for him where his average was significantly high compared to others of his ilk. There were players who were averaging 70 for a good potion of their careers, but I couldn't quite find a peak like that for Viv, although that could be due to some other restriction in the draft.

I'm not downplaying anything he did for the record, and I think he may well be the best of this lot, but I don't know if a peak would be the reason for him to be ahead of the rest. I incidentally picked Hammond in the same draft and he averaged 75 ish over a passable number of games at a point in his career.

From DoG’s peak thread a while ago.

(5 years and 40+ innings min req)

Viv (76-81) 45 innings 3256 runs @ 75.72
Hammond (35-46) 41 innings 2629 runs @ 75.11

Other players in this poll:
Smith (14-19) 87 innings 5709 runs @ 77.15
Lara (01-06) 83 innings 5029 runs @ 62.09

And the other 3 big boys
Sobers (58-63) 45 innings 3064 runs @ 78.56
Tendulkar (97-02) 69 innings 4335 runs @ 69.92
Hobbs (10-25) 47 innings 3006 runs @ 68.32


And of course our biggest boy of all
Bradman (34-48) 40 innings 3772 runs @ 114.30

Impressive in terms of length of time for Hobbs, Bradman and Hammond. Impressive in terms of innings for Smith and Lara. Impressive in terms of other factors for the others, but Lara clearly falls a bit short in this particular measure imo (relatively)

 

[subshakerz]

From DoG’s peak thread a while ago.

(5 years and 40+ innings min req)

Viv (76-81) 45 innings 3256 runs @ 75.72
Hammond (35-46) 41 innings 2629 runs @ 75.11

Other players in this poll:
Smith (14-19) 87 innings 5709 runs @ 77.15
Lara (01-06) 83 innings 5029 runs @ 62.09

And the other 3 big boys
Sobers (58-63) 45 innings 3064 runs @ 78.56
Tendulkar (97-02) 69 innings 4335 runs @ 69.92
Hobbs (10-25) 47 innings 3006 runs @ 68.32


And of course our biggest boy of all
Bradman (34-48) 40 innings 3772 runs @ 114.30

Impressive in terms of length of time for Hobbs, Bradman and Hammond. Impressive in terms of innings for Smith and Lara. Impressive in terms of other factors for the others, but Lara clearly falls a bit short in this particular measure imo (relatively)

Viv's is the best because it combines high output with very fast scoring against overall high quality bowling. None of the others are like that.

 

[Coronis]

Viv's is the best because it combines high output with very fast scoring against overall high quality bowling. None of the others are like that.

Yawn

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Viv's is the best because it combines high output with very fast scoring against overall high quality bowling. None of the others are like that.

And some very important series wins for WI(Eng 76, Pak 1980, Australia 1979)