Best England side of this century

[subshakerz]

The 2010-12 side and I don't think it's very close. It's not just the wins, it's the margin of the wins as well. That team could make the opposition lose the will to live.

The 2022-current side is definitely the funniest though.

They also suffered really bad losses, can you imagine Vaughn's side in their prime losing a test by an innings at home? No way. That team had too much fight.

 

[Howe_zat]

They also suffered really bad losses, can you imagine Vaughn's side in their prime losing a test by an innings at home? No way. That team had too much fight.

That's because their prime was 2 seasons. After that they lost 3 consecutive home series

And spent most of their time otherwise playing a pretty bad WI team.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

The 2008 England team - only one to win in NZ since 1997.

 

[Daemon]

I don't give it an asterisk. At the point Ajmal was legal and they had played him the previous year in England. We take the result on face value.

I’m sorry but the guy took 4 wickets per innings at 14.7 across 3 tests.

There is a gigantic asterisk next to that series win.

 

[subshakerz]

I’m sorry but the guy took 4 wickets per innings at 14.7 across 3 tests.

There is a gigantic asterisk next to that series win.

I'm not denying he was integral to the series win. I am saying rather than accept whinging Pom logic and pretend they didn't lose, we accept the result since it was all legal all that time. Especially since other side's were able to counter Ajmal in UAE at the same time.

 

[Daemon]

I'm not denying he was integral to the series win. I am saying rather than accept whinging Pom logic and pretend they didn't lose, we accept the result since it was all legal all that time. Especially since other side's were able to counter Ajmal in UAE at the same time.

It’s not whinging when the opposition is cheating at that massive a scale lol. 24/60 available wickets went to Ajmal.

 

[GIMH]

That's because their prime was 2 seasons. After that they lost 3 consecutive home series

And spent most of their time otherwise playing a pretty bad WI team.

Did we? 06 we drew with SL and beat Pak. 07 we beat Windies and lost to India. 08 we beat NZ and lost to SA. Am I getting massively lost here?

 

[subshakerz]

It’s not whinging when the opposition is cheating at that massive a scale lol. 24/60 available wickets went to Ajmal.

Technically it would be cheating if it was declared so at the time. Otherwise the results stand or just say that any test Ajmal was ever involved in is null and void, including the prior series England won in 2010, which is absurd logic . And it's not like he was the only spinner England were struggling with that series.

 

[subshakerz]

Did we? 06 we drew with SL and beat Pak. 07 we beat Windies and lost to India. 08 we beat NZ and lost to SA. Am I getting massively lost here?

That Vaughn's side prime ended with the commendable draw in India in 2006 tho it was under Flintoff but the core of the side was there. After that Strauss took over briefly and Vaughn later returned but the side had changed quite a bit and wasn't the same.

 

[GIMH]

That Vaughn's side prime ended with the commendable draw in India in 2006. After that Strauss took over briefly and Vaughn later returned but the side had changed quite a bit and wasn't the same.

I know all of this, although Vaughan remained captain until the SA series in 08. But I still can't see where three home defeats in a row comes from?

 

[Spark]

Technically it would be cheating if it was declared so at the time. Otherwise the results stand or just say that any test Ajmal was ever involved in is null and void, including the prior series England won in 2010, which is absurd logic . And it's not like he was the only spinner England were struggling with that series.

This is like saying Sun Yang shouldn't have been stripped of his gold medals despite being a proven drug cheat because other people won races he was in sometimes, and he was probably better anyway.

 

[subshakerz]

This is like saying Sun Yang shouldn't have been stripped of his gold medals despite being a proven drug cheat because other people won races he was in sometimes, and he was probably better anyway.

No, just that until he was stripped of them those are technically his medals. In cricket, Ajmal was banned but technically prior results count.

 

[Spark]

No, just that until he was stripped of them those are technically his medals. In cricket, Ajmal was banned but technically prior results count.

...do you really not see the issue here? Yes, Sun Yang had those medals stripped and those results were annulled after he was found to be systematically cheated during that time. Therefore, after Ajmal was proven to have systematically cheated during the time... you fill in the rest.

 

[Spark]

Let me put it this way: England's poor result in the UAE proves that they were very vulnerable to the tactic of "blatantly throw the ball". Given that everyone agrees that this is not a legitimate tactic in cricket, it tells us very little about how good the England cricket team really was.

 

[Molehill]

The 2010-12 team was the best for me, that batting line up was the best we've had in a long long time. Bresnan at 8, Broad (when he could bat) at 9 and Swann at 10. It was also helped by having Swann the bowler, amazing how when you have a decent spinner you don't need an all rounder.

However, whilst the current line up may not be the most talented, you can hardly argue with the results they're having. On paper, they should be getting thrashed in India....

 

[Flem274*]

The Strauss side had all the little pieces that add up to a briefly unfair team too, like most of their bowlers were bowling allrounders with incredible hand-eye, so even if you pushed through a top 6 in the form of their lives you were probably gonna get boshed by Bresnan, Swann and Broad. The bowling depth was great too, with guys like Onions frequently fit but not required.

That was the period even Liam Plunkett flirted with the idea of being a good test bowler.

 

[subshakerz]

Let me put it this way: England's poor result in the UAE proves that they were very vulnerable to the tactic of "blatantly throw the ball". Given that everyone agrees that this is not a legitimate tactic in cricket, it tells us very little about how good the England cricket team really was.

Yet even with the chucking Ajmal wasn't this unconquerable threat as other teams negotiated him and that didnt meant that England were somehow destined to lose, Ajmal wasn't even the only spinner winning games for Pakistan that series. England werent that settled against spin at that point.

All those runs and scores in that series count and frankly it was partly through that UAE series that the side improved in subsequent SC tours.

 

[subshakerz]

However, whilst the current line up may not be the most talented, you can hardly argue with the results they're having. On paper, they should be getting thrashed in India....

This was the issue with the Strauss side though. They had a bit of a weak underbelly at times. They were pretenders no.1s.until SA cleaned their clocks at home. Folks here are just remembering the good times but Vaughn's team was more the sum of their parts.

 

[Molehill]

This was the issue with the Strauss side though. They had a bit of a weak underbelly at times. They were pretenders no.1s.until SA cleaned their clocks at home. Folks here are just remembering the good times but Vaughn's team was more the sum of their parts.

England and SA had a strange relationship for a number of years. SA would always win in England, and the reverse would happen.

It could probably be said that that era was not a strong time for World Cricket -The Aussies were in transition, but even so, the 10/11 Ashes was a real trouncing.

If you did a combo of the two teams you probably get something like....

Trescothick
Cook
Trott
KP
Bell (2010)
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Jones

Assuming KP is the same KP for both, then it's a 7-3 split for 2010.

 

[Coronis]

The Strauss side with Cook, Trott, Bell, Pietersen, Collingwood, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Bresnan/Finn/Tremlett was the finest of the three. No weaknesses whatsoever.

Except mentally.