Leach, Ahmed, Hartley - terrible England spin "attacks" in the SC

[Howe_zat]

I don't know about reasonably good at the end there. It wasn't a minefield but it wasn't especially easy work either, especially if you ever wanted to actually score some runs.

Yeah most of the evidence says to me that this test should have been a lot lower scoring than it was given how many balls were turning past the bat and/or keeping low. There was some good batting that masked it on day 2/3, England bowled quite poorly in the second match innings and India fielded terribly in the third. The 4th innings is what you'd probably get from the majority of teams the majority of the time.

 

[grecian]

Jack Leach is a perfectly serviceable spin bowler, he doesn't deserve the ire he gets on here, in my biased opinion. Apart from Swann, massive outlier he's no worse than the vast majority of spinners for us in 45 years or so. Even though he benefits like Swann and Ali from DRS.

Hartley and Ahmed are young and inexperienced, but they've both helped win Test matches with 5fers, which isn't bad since they have only played 3 matches between them. Root has turned himself into a really decent all-rounder.

It's okay, and potentially very good.

Wouldn't play Ahmed in the next match, simply because of the record of forn spinners in India, give a chance for Bashar to get a debut match winner 5iver like Jacks(bit of a stretch there admittedly, but we did win that match) Hartley, Ahmed.

 

[andruid]

Go and suck a dick, the whole lot of you. ****ing ****s.

 

[Aidan11]

When our home season starts this summer we may need to make some big decisions.

If we play only one spinner in the tests it is likely to be Leach but if he is injured who steps.in?

Rehan was the obvious choice but Hartley has done very well so far in India.

 

[Coronis]

Jack Leach is a perfectly serviceable spin bowler, he doesn't deserve the ire he gets on here, in my biased opinion. Apart from Swann, massive outlier he's no worse than the vast majority of spinners for us in 45 years or so.

I mean, thats not a high threshold at all, they deserve the criticism they’ve received.

 

[Ali TT]

I feel like I may have the lost the initial battle with this thread but starting to win the war

 

[Chubb]

Leach is a better player than any England spinner of the last 50 years except Swann. He's never let England down. If he didn't wear glasses and looked more athletic the English media would be falling over themselves praising him.

You can say Tufnell was a better bowler but he certainly wasn't a better batsman.

I make an exception for Vic Marks who has always supported Leach as a Somerset-born and raised spinner like himself.

The rest of them are all "hurr hurr he looks like a club cricketer hurr hurr he worked in Morrisons hurr hurr we are very intelligent". Bunch of elitist losers.

 

[Ali TT]

Leach is a better player than any England spinner of the last 50 years except Swann. He's never let England down. If he didn't wear glasses and looked more athletic the English media would be falling over themselves praising him.

You can say Tufnell was a better bowler but he certainly wasn't a better batsman.

I make an exception for Vic Marks who has always supported Leach as a Somerset-born and raised spinner like himself.

Underwood?

One of Leach's issues has been his health/fitness. Not saying it's his fault but it's meant that he's been unable to provide the stability a side gets from having a reliable spinner, and forced England to dive into the gloomy depths of the county game to find alternatives.

 

[Chubb]

Underwood?

One of Leach's issues has been his health/fitness. Not saying it's his fault but it's meant that he's been unable to provide the stability a side gets from having a reliable spinner, and forced England to dive into the gloomy depths of the county game to find alternatives.

I'm thinking of the era after Underwood and couldn't be bothered looking up exactly when that was.

 

[Ali TT]

I'm thinking of the era after Underwood and couldn't be bothered looking up exactly when that was.

Could've just said "since-Underwood" I guess.

Like others have said, to me he's in that bunch with the likes of Panesar, Giles, Tufnell, Croft, Moeen (and going further back probably Emburey and Edmonds, but before my time). His average might be a tad higher than most but has been trending downwards for some time, so in my view his absences and a disproportionately high number of tests in Asia means it flatters for me.

 

[Chin Music]

Could've just said "since-Underwood" I guess.

Like others have said, to me he's in that bunch with the likes of Panesar, Giles, Tufnell, Croft, Moeen (and going further back probably Emburey and Edmonds, but before my time). His average might be a tad higher than most but has been trending downwards for some time, so in my view his absences and a disproportionately high number of tests in Asia means it flatters for me.

He's actually comparable in average with Panesar, but not a better bowler than him. Let alone the number of matches in Asia, Leach has been fortunate enough to bowl against largely inferior batting than the likes of Panesar and others. I'm far from convinced that Leach would have found the going that much easier in the last couple of matches given that this series, India hasn't served up the spinning tops they did 3 years ago.

 

[howitzer]

Leach is a better player than any England spinner of the last 50 years except Swann. He's never let England down. If he didn't wear glasses and looked more athletic the English media would be falling over themselves praising him.

You can say Tufnell was a better bowler but he certainly wasn't a better batsman.

I make an exception for Vic Marks who has always supported Leach as a Somerset-born and raised spinner like himself.

The rest of them are all "hurr hurr he looks like a club cricketer hurr hurr he worked in Morrisons hurr hurr we are very intelligent". Bunch of elitist losers.

Edmonds better than people give him credit for. Also reckon Such would have proven himself decent quality without the constant scapegoating. Reckon they were both better than Leach.

 

[Molehill]

He's actually comparable in average with Panesar, but not a better bowler than him. Let alone the number of matches in Asia, Leach has been fortunate enough to bowl against largely inferior batting than the likes of Panesar and others. I'm far from convinced that Leach would have found the going that much easier in the last couple of matches given that this series, India hasn't served up the spinning tops they did 3 years ago.

Panesar is the 2nd best spinner England have had probably since Underwood. Would've played more games if he could bat or field, and if Swann hadn't suddenly turned into such a good cricketer late in his career. He was absolutely key to England winning in India, 17 wickets in 3 Tests (Swann had 20 in 4).

 

[Chin Music]

Panesar is the 2nd best spinner England have had probably since Underwood. Would've played more games if he could bat or field, and if Swann hadn't suddenly turned into such a good cricketer late in his career. He was absolutely key to England winning in India, 17 wickets in 3 Tests (Swann had 20 in 4).

It wasn't just the presence of Swann that stopped him progressing. By the time Swann walked out of that Ashes tour, Monty would have been approaching 32. He could have had 2-3 years left. Unfortunately, he simply wasn't the sharpest tool in the box.

 

[Molehill]

It wasn't just the presence of Swann that stopped him progressing. By the time Swann walked out of that Ashes tour, Monty would have been approaching 32. He could have had 2-3 years left. Unfortunately, he simply wasn't the sharpest tool in the box.

But 6 months after Swann walked out, Moeen made his debut, who had rather more dimensions to his game than Monty.

Agreed though, Monty was his own worst enemy at times. No denying the natural talent he had though, even if Warne never really rated him. What was his line? "Monty hasn't played 50 Tests, he's played the same one 50 times".

 

[Yeoman]

He did indeed lack variety however his stock delivery was good with his relative pace and bounce.

 

[Yeoman]

Edmonds better than people give him credit for. Also reckon Such would have proven himself decent quality without the constant scapegoating. Reckon they were both better than Leach.

Such was indeed dropped perfunctorily on a couple of occasions. As ever in England, a spinner’s lack of batting ability counted against him.

 

[Yeoman]

Going back to the original topic of this thread, the extremely inexperienced spin attack that England have fielded in this series have done about as well as one could have expected. Legitimate questions can be asked however about the pipeline for spinners that has left the cupboard so bare.

Set against pre-series expectations it is England’s batting that has disappointed me more than their bowling

 

[kevinw]

Such's returns in his last three tests were 5-165 , 6-158, and 4-114. First two in Aus, third test was at home vs NZ. MacGill got a 12fer in the second of these Tests.

 

[Prince EWS]

What does your going to The Oval have to do with my personal impression of a bowler?

Leave Jimmy out of the Oval.