Who is the best new ball bowler of all time?

[subshakerz]

No Hadlee takers at all seems strange.

I can only presume all the Kiwi posters have put subshakerz on ignore.

I don't actually see a strong case for McGrath over Hadlee in this. They are close.

 

[kyear2]

More Aussies than Kiwis

 

[Jumno]

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Lillee

 

[Slifer]

What about new ball pairs? Who were the best pair?

 

[shortpitched713]

What about new ball pairs? Who were the best pair?

Steyn Philander, obviously. Next, please.

 

[Coronis]

Barnes. Remembering that famous story of him sulking when being denied the new ball I checked out his stats.

First position: 9 matches, 78 wickets @ 13.29 SR 35.2 11 5’fers 4 10’fers
Second position: 15 matches 100 wickets @ 17.70 SR 45.0 12 5’fers 4 10’fers
First change: 3 matches 11 wickets @ 27.18 SR 56.7 1 5’fer

Shockingly England lost all 3 matches where he didn’t open the bowling.

 

[kyear2]

The soggiest of squibs

At the end of a wet summer, we look back to an even wetter one, and the death of a visionary idea

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[capt_Luffy]

The soggiest of squibs

At the end of a wet summer, we look back to an even wetter one, and the death of a visionary idea

www.espncricinfo.com

You always ignore one thing when comparing Barnes completely; that is I believe the pitches weren't good for only him, right?? If a pitch is bad, every bowler should have tons of wickets, and I believe even S F Barnes couldn't bowl from both ends.... Then how the hell he got most of the opposition wickets in most of the matches? You could say average is highly dependent on era, which indeed is very true; but I believe that doesn't works for WPM, right? His WPM makes Murali and Hadlee blush, that thing is outrageous.

 

[kyear2]

This isn't nearly definitive due to sample size. So.....

First positions in order of average, s/r, wpm, 5fer %

Marshall 18.98 - 43.4 - 5.2 - 36%
McGrath 20.97 - 51.1 - 4.4 - 22%
Steyn 21.95 - 41.8 - 4.2 - 24%
Hadlee 21.95 - 51.4 - 4.9 - 40.7%
Imran 21.29 - 50.1 - 4.7 - 31.8%

 

[subshakerz]

What about new ball pairs? Who were the best pair?

Ambrose Walsh I think.

 

[Coronis]

This isn't nearly definitive due to sample size. So.....

First positions in order of average, s/r, wpm, 5fer %

Marshall 18.98 - 43.4 - 5.2 - 36%
McGrath 20.97 - 51.1 - 4.4 - 22%
Steyn 21.95 - 41.8 - 4.2 - 24%
Hadlee 21.95 - 51.4 - 4.9 - 40.7%
Imran 21.29 - 50.1 - 4.7 - 31.8%

Ambrose 20.71 - 55.5 - 3.9 - 24.3%
Davidson 19.15 - 57.3 - 5.3 - 45.2%
Barnes 13.29 - 35.2 - 8.7 - 122.2%

fwiw for Davidson, that encompasses 31 of his last 33 matches, all his 5’fers and 10’fers (other 2 were also opening the bowling, took 5/114 in those matches - both also part of his breakout 57/58 series in SA)

 

[kyear2]

Ambrose 20.71 - 55.5 - 3.9 - 24.3%
Davidson 19.15 - 57.3 - 5.3 - 45.2%
Barnes 13.29 - 35.2 - 8.7 - 122.2%

fwiw for Davidson, that encompasses 31 of his last 33 matches, all his 5’fers and 10’fers (other 2 were also opening the bowling, took 5/114 in those matches - both also part of his breakout 57/58 series in SA)

Strike rate aside, Davidson was really impressive.

 

[kyear2]

Is 5fer percentage something we should look at more often, or is that less important than the rest?

 

[shortpitched713]

This isn't nearly definitive due to sample size. So.....

First positions in order of average, s/r, wpm, 5fer %

Marshall 18.98 - 43.4 - 5.2 - 36%
McGrath 20.97 - 51.1 - 4.4 - 22%
Steyn 21.95 - 41.8 - 4.2 - 24%
Hadlee 21.95 - 51.4 - 4.9 - 40.7%
Imran 21.29 - 50.1 - 4.7 - 31.8%

Shouldn't it be both positions 1 and 2? They're both getting a new ball, just from opposite ends. ( Position 1 gets it for 1 over earlier, but not that substantial I think).

 

[Coronis]

Shouldn't it be both positions 1 and 2? They're both getting a new ball, just from opposite ends. ( Position 1 gets it for 1 over earlier, but not that substantial I think).

idk, bowling a ball into the ground at 130+ km’s an hour would leave a few marks. Plus whatever bat the bloke gets on it

 

[kyear2]

Shouldn't it be both positions 1 and 2? They're both getting a new ball, just from opposite ends. ( Position 1 gets it for 1 over earlier, but not that substantial I think).

Wasn't answering the poll question per say, just following on from Coronis's post.

Plus no. 1 meant you were the guy . As I said, not meant to be determinative of anything.

 

[shortpitched713]

Wasn't answering the poll question per say, just following on from Coronis's post.

Plus no. 1 meant you were the guy . As I said, not meant to be determinative of anything.

Are you getting those stats from statsguru, by the way?

So, it doesn't really prove anything about new ball proficiency, as a bowler could get their wickets at any time, just as long as he is in first position for his team.

 

[Coronis]

Random stat:

Only 3 bowlers who played in 50+ matches opened the bowling in every innings they played, Trueman (67), McKenzie (60) and Bedser (51).

Others opened the bowling at least once in every match but missed a few innings here or there e.g Kapil, Boult, Donald

Interestingly Hadlee opened the bowling in every match bar one, where he bowled 4th in both innings, behind 3 other pacers, including his older brother Dayle. He took 11/58, winning NZ the match against India and likely New Zealand’s first victory by an innings?

 

[kyear2]

Are you getting those stats from statsguru, by the way?

So, it doesn't really prove anything about new ball proficiency, as a bowler could get their wickets at any time, just as long as he is in first position for his team.

Did you see when I specifically said I wasn't answering the poll question.

 

[capt_Luffy]

idk, bowling a ball into the ground at 130+ km’s an hour would leave a few marks. Plus whatever bat the bloke gets on it

Position 2 gets the new ball after 6 balls, not an hour...