Ambrose was considered the best bowler in the world at a time when Waqar, Wasim and Bishop were at their peak. He dominated Australia. Is notably better than Donald.
Objectively is whatever opinion you agree with, as usual.
No. Pretending Donald would have the same peer rating as the others is wrong.
Nah I take the 5 tests per country rule. Personally it makes things easier to judge. It’s a subjective thing, which you can disagree with. That record is made up of a small number of tests per each country.
Mcgrath played more than 5 tests in Ind and Pak. So we can judge his record. Overall his Asia record is not as good as the best agreed like Marshall, Steyn etc.
From 95 on (about 75% of Donald's career), which of the 3 would you pick? Hint: this is a rhetorical question.
Noted but you didn't address my points.
Respectfully, the opinions of Australians arent the be all and end all of cricket, actual performances are. And I'm really surprised by you Subs. You go on and on about impact and the SC. Donald has both covered. Donald was never going to take any huge hauls series wise. Why? He played a grand total of three 5 tests series in his entire career. In 29 series Donald played a grand total of 72 tests ie 2.5 tests on average. And he had to share wickets with Fanie and Shaun. Still with all that he managed 4.6 wpm, a sr of 47, and in his limited time in the SC, he did very good. His record vs Australia is middling but apart from Marshall, no other fast bowler has a complete record vs all comers.
Donald has an impressive SR and average no doubt and a pretty good WPM. But Lillee has a even better WPM(granted he had less competition for wickets, but did bowl with Peak Thomson), and because of being a lone warrior his average is higher, but still an impressive 23.62. Country by country, Donald was fantastic at home and Eng, pretty good in WI, middling(I am using the 5 test/country limit). Lillee was fantastic at home and Eng, and pretty good in NZ. I rate Lillee marginally ahead because I feel he was more destructive cause of insane WPM, and he maintained his away record in Eng was a bigger length. Still very very close, and Donald is a top 8 for me.
It’s considerably higher, although Donald’s is brilliant too, and Lillee also bowled for some time with peak Jeff Thomson. Also by the same logic, Donald would find it easier to maintain a better average(22.25 vs 23.92) since he bowled alongside an ATG fast bowler, while Lillee for long part was a lone warrior and used to bowl long long spells.
Well I think I am being consistent. I dont advocate a blanket reading of stats to differentiate between top tiers. I look at context.
Lillee played 60 of 70 tests in Australia or England . Donald is more significantly tested away from home and unfamiliar conditions than lillee and still has a better record.
SC is not one country. I use the 5 test/country rule. If you don’t want to agree with that, your wish, it’s subjective. Donald only played 5 or more tests at home, in Eng, in Aus, in WI. Lillee, in Aus, Eng and NZ. And Aus and Eng don’t offer similar conditions, you club them like its country, for Lillee.
So why isn't Pakistan a deal breaker for Lillee?. And vs the best team of his time, who he played exclusively at HOME let's not pretend like Lillee set the world on fire. Interesting how now all of a sudden you're rating performances vs Australia, before, in another debate it was a after thought.....smh
Key difference is that Ambrose rocked against Australia and Donald did not.
In the other debate, regarding Imran, WI was the Australia of his time.
Lillee did very well against WI at home. In 75-76 he was very good(27 wickets in 5 tests at 26), in 79-80, he was middling but not very bad(average of 30 and 12 wickets in 3 matches) and he was magnificent in 82 with 16 wickets in 3 matches at 19.
Trying to give him credit for opposite things of course.
Of course you are.