Virat Kohli vs Jacques Kallis

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Yes, Kohli have proven himself in England in 2018, but to make up for that abomination of 2014 and rest of cheap innings; he needs another such tour, or atleast a close one.

Yep to prove himself as a decent bat there, he needs that

 

[subshakerz]

Ponting was worse in India than even Kohli in England..... Kallis nowhere reached such a low.

Sure. But we can weigh other advantages in Ponting's favor. Point is that Kallis also doesn't have a clean record.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Sure. But we can weigh other advantages in Ponting's favor. Point is that Kallis also doesn't have a clean record.

So? Even Sobers have a small hole in NZ. My point is, Kallis' holes are no way near disastrous as Ponting's. If you want to rate Ponting ahead, sure that's fair. But you can't really compare for people rating Kallis higher.

 

[subshakerz]

So? Even Sobers have a small hole in NZ. My point is, Kallis' holes are no way near disastrous as Ponting's. If you want to rate Ponting ahead, sure that's fair. But you can't really compare for people rating Kallis higher.

Ponting's hole would be more disastrous if he didnt succeed against Murali in SL. Folks can put Kallis ahead but for virtually 70% of their respective careers which coincided, Ponting was rated higher by the cricket fraternity and for good reason. It smacks of pure stats-based logic.

 

[Bolo.]

Ponting's hole would be more disastrous if he didnt succeed against Murali in SL. Folks can put Kallis ahead but for virtually 70% of their respective careers which coincided, Ponting was rated higher by the cricket fraternity and for good reason. It smacks of pure stats-based logic.

OFC ponting was rated higher for most of their careers. He was better in the first half (or whatever). He peaked earlier. If you reversed both of their careers, Kallis would have been rated higher for 70%.

Do you think there is something intrinsically better about peaking earlier or later?

 

[subshakerz]

OFC ponting was rated higher for most of their careers. He was better in the first half (or whatever). He peaked earlier. If you reversed both of their careers, Kallis would have been rated higher for 70%.

Do you think there is something intrinsically better about peaking earlier or later?

How? If you reversed, Kallis would be rated higher for the long period of Ponting's dip, but as soon as Ponting peaks and onwards, he would be rated higher simply because he was such a ferocious and feared batsman during his peak, for the same period.

Anyways, don't want to sidetrack this thread about Ponting.

 

[Bolo.]

How? If you reversed, Kallis would be rated higher for the long period of Ponting's dip, but as soon as Ponting peaks and onwards, he would be rated higher simply because he was such a ferocious and feared batsman during his peak, for the same period.

Anyways, don't want to sidetrack this thread about Ponting.

70% of Kallis' career is 116 tests. His averaged 62 in that time, 59 away and 64 on the spiciest home decks in the world. Don't pretend people are not impressed by big numbers, correctly or not. All the top ranked bats in history are ones who have achieved some silly peak career numbers.

People would have been calling Ponting the better form bat at the time, but after the initial assessment of Kallis being better, and those career numbers, people would not be calling Ponting ahead on career.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Wait what, absolutely not. Kohli is one of the top 3-4 ODI batsmen ever, Kallis wouldn't even make like a top 50. The gap isnt as big in tests.

Kallis would easily make the top 40… leave 50

 

[ma1978]

If you standardised for eta and geography, this would be very close in my view, not least because Kohli has the big 100s to his name. I’d go for Kallis for the sheer length of career and body of work, but it’s not a slam dunk

 

[Coronis]

Kallis could’ve retired halfway through his career and I’d still consider him a better batsman.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Kallis for sure right now but expect Kohli to end up as better

 

[capt_Luffy]

Kallis could’ve retired halfway through his career and I’d still consider him a better batsman.

VK has a much stronger case had he retired in 2018 as well....

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kallis would easily make the top 40… leave 50

50 ODI batsmen better than Kallis not necessarily in order:

1) Viv Richards
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) AB de Villiers
4) Virat Kohli
5) Michael Bevan
6) MS Dhoni
7) Zaheer Abbas
8) Ricky Ponting
9) Rohit Sharma
10) Brian Lara
11) Mark Waugh
12) Saeed Anwar
13) David Warner
14) Matthew Hayden
15) Adam Gilchrist
16) Mike Hussey
17) Kumar Sangakkara
18) Dean Jones
19) Hashim Amla
20) Shane Watson
21) Gordon Greenidge
22) Desmond Haynes
23) Javed Miandad
24) Inzamam ul-Haq
25) Greg Chappell
26) Babar Azam
27) Chris Gayle
28) Jos Buttler
29) Joe Root
30) Eoin Morgan
31) Johnny Bairstow
32) Graeme Smith
33) Herschelle Gibbs
34) Allan Lamb
35) Gary Kirsten
36) Faf du Plessis
37) Quinton de Kock
38) Shikhar Dhawan
39) Yuvraj Singh
40) Marcus Trescothick
41) Tillekeratne Dilshan
42) Mohammad Azharuddin
43) Ross Taylor
44) Virender Sehwag
45) Sanath Jayasuriya
46) Kevin Pietersen
47) Jason Roy
48) Aaron Finch
49) Damien Martyn
50) Michael Clarke

 

[capt_Luffy]

50 ODI batsmen better than Kallis not necessarily in order:

1) Viv Richards
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) AB de Villiers
4) Virat Kohli
5) Michael Bevan
6) MS Dhoni
7) Zaheer Abbas
8) Ricky Ponting
9) Rohit Sharma
10) Brian Lara
11) Mark Waugh
12) Saeed Anwar
13) David Warner
14) Matthew Hayden
15) Adam Gilchrist
16) Mike Hussey
17) Kumar Sangakkara
18) Dean Jones
19) Hashim Amla
20) Shane Watson
21) Gordon Greenidge
22) Desmond Haynes
23) Javed Miandad
24) Inzamam ul-Haq
25) Greg Chappell
26) Babar Azam
27) Chris Gayle
28) Jos Buttler
29) Joe Root
30) Eoin Morgan
31) Johnny Bairstow
32) Graeme Smith
33) Herschelle Gibbs
34) Allan Lamb
35) Gary Kirsten
36) Faf du Plessis
37) Quinton de Kock
38) Shikhar Dhawan
39) Yuvraj Singh
40) Marcus Trescothick
41) Tillekeratne Dilshan
42) Mohammad Azharuddin
43) Ross Taylor
44) Virender Sehwag
45) Sanath Jayasuriya
46) Kevin Pietersen
47) Jason Roy
48) Aaron Finch
49) Damien Martyn
50) Michael Clarke

Won't necessarily place Roy, Finch and Lamb ahead personally.

 

[howitzer]

50 ODI batsmen better than Kallis not necessarily in order:

1) Viv Richards
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) AB de Villiers
4) Virat Kohli
5) Michael Bevan
6) MS Dhoni
7) Zaheer Abbas
8) Ricky Ponting
9) Rohit Sharma
10) Brian Lara
11) Mark Waugh
12) Saeed Anwar
13) David Warner
14) Matthew Hayden
15) Adam Gilchrist
16) Mike Hussey
17) Kumar Sangakkara
18) Dean Jones
19) Hashim Amla
20) Shane Watson
21) Gordon Greenidge
22) Desmond Haynes
23) Javed Miandad
24) Inzamam ul-Haq
25) Greg Chappell
26) Babar Azam
27) Chris Gayle
28) Jos Buttler
29) Joe Root
30) Eoin Morgan
31) Johnny Bairstow
32) Graeme Smith
33) Herschelle Gibbs
34) Allan Lamb
35) Gary Kirsten
36) Faf du Plessis
37) Quinton de Kock
38) Shikhar Dhawan
39) Yuvraj Singh
40) Marcus Trescothick
41) Tillekeratne Dilshan
42) Mohammad Azharuddin
43) Ross Taylor
44) Virender Sehwag
45) Sanath Jayasuriya
46) Kevin Pietersen
47) Jason Roy
48) Aaron Finch
49) Damien Martyn
50) Michael Clarke

There's a couple there who I would consider marginal but most of these are clear. Kallis fwiw was initally a pretty decent bat for late 90s-early 00's ODI's. He was perhaps a tad slower than ideal for an upper-middle bat but not by much and was very reliable. The trouble really began with the first big scoring rate boom around 2003 when he didn't alter his game to adjust for the new requirements. He somewhat redressed it in the last few years but there were half a dozen or so years from about 2003 where I believe his rate of scoring was a genuine liability at the time in the format.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also, ftr, you can be left out of the top 50 ODI batsmen and still be quite good so no real shade at Kallis.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

50 ODI batsmen better than Kallis not necessarily in order:

1) Viv Richards
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) AB de Villiers
4) Virat Kohli
5) Michael Bevan
6) MS Dhoni
7) Zaheer Abbas
8) Ricky Ponting
9) Rohit Sharma
10) Brian Lara
11) Mark Waugh
12) Saeed Anwar
13) David Warner
14) Matthew Hayden
15) Adam Gilchrist
16) Mike Hussey
17) Kumar Sangakkara
18) Dean Jones
19) Hashim Amla
20) Shane Watson
21) Gordon Greenidge
22) Desmond Haynes
23) Javed Miandad
24) Inzamam ul-Haq
25) Greg Chappell
26) Babar Azam
27) Chris Gayle
28) Jos Buttler
29) Joe Root
30) Eoin Morgan
31) Johnny Bairstow
32) Graeme Smith
33) Herschelle Gibbs
34) Allan Lamb
35) Gary Kirsten
36) Faf du Plessis
37) Quinton de Kock
38) Shikhar Dhawan
39) Yuvraj Singh
40) Marcus Trescothick
41) Tillekeratne Dilshan
42) Mohammad Azharuddin
43) Ross Taylor
44) Virender Sehwag
45) Sanath Jayasuriya
46) Kevin Pietersen
47) Jason Roy
48) Aaron Finch
49) Damien Martyn
50) Michael Clarke

Will never place
Michael Clarke
Jason Roy
Allan Lamb
Kevin Pieterson
Aaron Finch
Shikhar Dhawan
Virender Sehwag
Shane Watson
Faf du Plessis
Johnny Bairstow
Herschelle Gibbs (avg 36 Vs avg 44 and longevity edges Kallis)
Jos Butler
Yuvraj Singh
Inzamam Ul Haq
Graeme Smith ( too lame, Kallis any day far better)
ahead of Kallis

 

[capt_Luffy]

Will never place
Michael Clarke
Jason Roy
Allan Lamb
Kevin Pieterson
Aaron Finch
Shikhar Dhawan
Virender Sehwag
Shane Watson
Faf du Plessis
Johnny Bairstow
Jos Butler
Yuvraj Singh
Inzamam Ul Haq
Graeme Smith ( too lame, Kallis any day far better)
ahead of Kallis

Among them; I would definitely place ahead Kallis:
Pietersen
Yuvraj
Inzamam
Butler
Bairstow
Du Plessis
Dhawan
Bairstow
Sehwag
Watson
Clarke

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Among them; I would definitely place ahead Kallis:
Pietersen
Yuvraj
Inzamam
Butler
Bairstow
Du Plessis
Dhawan
Bairstow
Sehwag
Watson
Clarke

Especially Buttler. Guys England’s best ever ODI batsmen and a country mile ahead of Kallis as an ODI bat.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Same for Inzi. Don’t know on what grounds Kallis can be rated ahead as an ODI bat