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*Official* New Zealand in Bangladesh 2023/24

DougieRydal

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Finn Allen released to play Ford Trophy and then back in 'for cover' for Wednesday's game, Nicolls clearly retained in the Playing XI then.

Is Henry Nicolls seen as the future as we build for the next ODI WC in 2027 when he'll be 36.

Baffling selection, even if god forbid he actually scores some runs. Allen (24yrs) who is killing it in domestic one day stuff is let go
 

thierry henry

International Coach
Soumya being in the side is basically satire at this stage.

I think they thought he did well there last time, or was it the time before, and were willing to forget every other failure he's ever had, which happens to be nearly every other time he's ever played. Plus Hathurasinghe.
The only evidence I can find of him doing well in NZ (a century in a test) was actually 3 tours back, not to mention the different format - 2018/19 (you've subsequently been here in 2020/21, 21/22, and now).
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The only evidence I can find of him doing well in NZ (a century in a test) was actually 3 tours back, not to mention the different format - 2018/19 (you've subsequently been here in 2020/21, 21/22, and now).
I think they think he's a more seriously bowling option in NZ than other places.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Finn Allen released to play Ford Trophy and then back in 'for cover' for Wednesday's game, Nicolls clearly retained in the Playing XI then.

Is Henry Nicolls seen as the future as we build for the next ODI WC in 2027 when he'll be 36.

Baffling selection, even if god forbid he actually scores some runs. Allen (24yrs) who is killing it in domestic one day stuff is let go
Nicholls's domination during the spring half of the Plunket Shield was a factor bandied about by management as to why he retained his placed back during the Bangladesh tests (as well as his double ton in last test, and incumbency, tbf).

But Finn Allen bossing the just completed half of the Ford Trophy counts for nought.

I sniff, the stench of bullshit and double standards.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Nicholls bring given a few inconsequential jamodi match paychecks before getting dropped rom the test team for the summer
 

thierry henry

International Coach
Honestly Nicholls as a long term ODI option makes little sense and is uninspiring, but selecting him over Allen is defensible. Nicholls has a (patchy) body of work behind him at ODI level and international level generally, while Allen was validly dropped recently because he basically sucks.

You can make the argument that he has already earned a recall but jeez, you could also pretty validly argue that that's premature. The vibes are good but there seems to be a bit of head in the sand going around about how Allen actually really sucked balls.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Congratulations to Will Young once again showing he can only bat against pathetic minnows
Made me look. As I could probably be persuaded.
But, assume we are talking ODIs, it is actually his poor terrible record v Ireland that is dragging his record down from a 50ish average.
 
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RMBolton

U19 Debutant
Finn Allen released to play Ford Trophy and then back in 'for cover' for Wednesday's game, Nicolls clearly retained in the Playing XI then.

Is Henry Nicolls seen as the future as we build for the next ODI WC in 2027 when he'll be 36.

Baffling selection, even if god forbid he actually scores some runs. Allen (24yrs) who is killing it in domestic one day stuff is let go
Super Smash?

Sheesh. That's some travel schedule: Dunedin -> Auckland -> Nelson within 48 or so hours. Lucky the Aces are playing the first game, or there'd be an even tighter timetable.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Honestly Nicholls as a long term ODI option makes little sense and is uninspiring, but selecting him over Allen is defensible. Nicholls has a (patchy) body of work behind him at ODI level and international level generally, while Allen was validly dropped recently because he basically sucks.

You can make the argument that he has already earned a recall but jeez, you could also pretty validly argue that that's premature. The vibes are good but there seems to be a bit of head in the sand going around about how Allen actually really sucked balls.
I stand in the group who think it's indefensible. You have to go back to pre-COVID to find a Henry Nicholls ODI fifty against a decent nation. We know what he can do, and it isn't anything decent in ODIs. He's 32, we don't play another ODI series until Nov 2024. He's not going to be at the 2027 World Cup (although how could we rule that out...). You have a guy in Allen who is in some sort of form, is 24, with solid batting around in him in Young, Rachin, Latham etc. It just makes zero sense. If it was a 'one game to save humanity' sort of outing I could advocate for Nicholls over Young, but it's such a nothing series in the context of it all, I just see no intelligence or bravery in picking a guy who averages 30 or thereabouts at a pretty tepid strike rate, is 32, and is in a side with guys who bat the way he does anyway.

Did Allen suck balls? Yeah, it got to the stage where he was a walking wicket. But there aren't many guys in this country who can bat like him and if we want to wash over a guy who can hit it like that, when it's in place of 'Mr Safe option', then I think we've taken a wrong turn. How can we pretend we give no ****s about 'JAMODIs' then pick the soft option, rather than the riskier one? If we gave no ****s we'd go for the entertainer, the younger guy, the potential future.
 

thierry henry

International Coach
But there aren't many guys in this country who can bat like him and if we want to wash over a guy who can hit it like that, when it's in place of 'Mr Safe option', then I think we've taken a wrong turn. How can we pretend we give no ****s about 'JAMODIs' then pick the soft option, rather than the riskier one? If we gave no ****s we'd go for the entertainer, the younger guy, the potential future.
Are we trying to say we don't care about JAMODIs? I thought you and I were just about the 2 remaining defenders of the sanctity of international cricket (bloody noble cause that imo). If anything, you could argue that picking plodders like Nicholls is sort of a nod to the pretense that we are taking this somewhat seriously.

The whole discussion about Allen just feels like a discussion about the idea of Finn Allen rather than the actual batsman who is just quite bad. I would be shocked if Nicholls was in our next WC squad (given he doesn't even make the squad now) but I'd also be at least a little bit surprised if Allen had turned himself into an international standard ODI player by then.

Look tbh I have little to no interest in Nicholls being in our ODI team (or test team at this point). I've never been a fan at all. This whole discussion with Allen being the counterfactual just seems weird to me because it seems to be based on some underlying belief that Extreme Aggression = Potential and/or that Playing Some Nice Shots = Likely to Succeed, and neither of those things seem to be founded in much basic cricket logic (which might be totally irrelevant in 2023 idk).

Long story short, Allen might git gud (anyone might git gud), but so far he isn't gud so why this underlying optimism that he gonna git gud?

Anyway whatever, I for one welcome the coming of our Finn Allen who is good at batting overlord.
 
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SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Are we trying to say we don't care about JAMODIs? I thought you and I were just about the 2 remaining defenders of the sanctity of international cricket (bloody noble cause that imo). If anything, you could argue that picking plodders like Nicholls is sort of a nod to the pretense that we are taking this somewhat seriously.

The whole discussion about Allen just feels like a discussion about the idea of Finn Allen rather than the actual batsman who is just quite bad. I would be shocked if Nicholls was in our next WC squad (given he doesn't even make the squad now) but I'd also be at least a little bit surprised if Allen had turned himself into an international standard ODI player by then.

Look tbh I have little to no interest in Nicholls being in our ODI team (or test team at this point). I've never been a fan at all. This whole discussion with Allen being the counterfactual just seems weird to me because it seems to be based on some underlying belief that Extreme Aggression = Potential and/or that Playing Some Nice Shots = Likely to Succeed, and neither of those things seem to be founded in much basic cricket logic.

Long story short, Allen might git gud (anyone might git gud), but so far he isn't gud so why this underlying optimism that he gonna git gud?

Anyway whatever, I for one welcome the coming of our Finn Allen who is good at batting overlord.
Oh no, you will never hear me say I don't care about any ODIs. I'm aware I have this incredible nostalgia from the 90s/00s but I still think they have significant relevance and an important part in international cricket's viability. And yeah, you have exposed a fly in the ointment in my case - if I truly cared about ODIs series on series, I might *MIGHT* want Nicholls there over Allen. But I'd say to that, this is Bangladesh, there's no more ODIs for 11 months, and Nipples is 32 and to be fair, never was good at the format apart from decent parts in 2019-20 (one good series v India in 2020 a score in the World Cup final and a ton v Sri Lanka in early 2019).

You're right, the argument is based on Allen's firepower and a couple of decent starts/knocks. He got a go, he didn't make the most of it. Apparently he doesn't work hard enough and loves the touring life, which isn't great. I'm actually starting to chip away at my own argument here...I just think on balance, giving Allen a go off 2x Ford Trophy tons ahead of a guy who has proven ongoing he isn't near the answer to our ODI questions is a better bet. Maybe he's matured, maybe the World Cup omission hurt. I'd like to find out, and I don't want him to be overlooked for a guy we already know what we're getting from, and it ain't much.

But yeah you make some solid points. We do get carried away by wackedy doo (shoutout to the late great Hogan). I guess we've seen a little from Allen, we saw the way the World Cup went with run-fests and how T20 will continue to affect the 50-over game in the way its played (but hopefully not its viability) and with guys around him like Young, Rachin, Kane, Conway, Latham etc who can occupy the crease, it just feels like he fits if he can get it right. He may never, you're right. I hope we don't find that out at 26 or so if he shitcans NZ and settles in as a franchise whore.

I also like the idea of two Saint Kentigern guys in the side with O'Rourke, so that's also clouding my judgement. Both are SteveNZ XI members who I will continue to back all the way, which isn't a great omen for them but I'm running with it. Only one HPCC player in Lord Glenn the Phillips is disappointing, too.
 

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
I think they think he's a more seriously bowling option in NZ than other places.
I dont know why they think that. Hes a proven failure with ball in hand. I mean you can’t force a player into the team just because you need a pace bowling all rounder. He bowls neither pace nor spin. Funny bowler. And they considered him genuine 5th option. Hammersingha said in the presser that he wants Soumya because Shakib is not in the team. What a logic.
 

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
Funny you give tanzid all wc games and drop him forever. Whats the point then? Investing on a guy and forget about him. Its not the right way.
 

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