Curtly Ambrose vs Wasim Akram

[BazBall21]

His record in WACA is even better.


Strange that Ambrose did worse in Sabina and Kensington than Bourda and Antigua.

Averages 50 in Sabina. Don't really know what pitches he played on tho.

Yeah Ambrose's record in Antigua is tremendous. Kensington Oval is sometimes a mixed bag but Jamiaca is generally reliable for the quicks.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Most players have better averages at home regardless of how tough they are I think. Kallis and Cummins are good examples

 

[kyear2]

Jesus….

What’s more impressive, a 55 average in SA or a 55 average in Australia? Take your time

The condescending, patronizing tone of your responses are so beyond ****ed up, who the hell do you think you're taking to.

 

[kyear2]

Most players have better averages at home regardless of how tough they are I think. Kallis and Cummins are good examples

So why give extra credit in a comparison. We also just saw that not all WI pitches were helpful either.

Why the issue, especially since I agreed with the other two.However I'm not giving extra points for being successful at home.

Longer career, yes. Fielding support agree.

 

[Coronis]

The condescending, patronizing tone of your responses are so beyond ****ed up, who the hell do you think you're taking to.

Someone who doesn’t understand the difference in difficulty between batting in South Africa and Australia in the 21st century apparently. Forgive my tone, I just didn’t expect to have to explain such a basic fact to someone on this forum with such a vast cricket knowledge.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I can’t ever get this worked up over arguing about cricket.

Not my thing. I love the game. Why the **** would I argue?

It’s all BS and Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

(I’m on my 2nd Heineken right now and its effects are starting to kick in. Go Holland! Beat the hosts please.)

 

[kyear2]

Someone who doesn’t understand the difference in difficulty between batting in South Africa and Australia in the 21st century apparently. Forgive my tone, I just didn’t expect to have to explain such a basic fact to someone on this forum with such a vast cricket knowledge.

My discussion and point was about Wasim, it wasn't even about which was more difficult or the reasons why. I didn't care.

I'm also not telling anyone else how to view him I was saying to Trundler that I was coming around to his way of seeing things. Period, that's it. Just couldn't go with the third of three caveats, but the other two, fine, I'm on board and it makes sense.

As usual with this community, compromise isn't welcome unless it's either way. If you average less at home, let's say because you've adjusted to your home conditions after growing up there, why should that be factored in to adjust your numbers. You're already averaging less at home, why further deduct from your overall average, in making a comp. It doesn't make any sense. That's not where he's loosing out in the comparison.

That's my point.

 

[kyear2]

I can’t ever get this worked up over arguing about cricket.

Not my thing. I love the game. Why the **** would I argue?

It’s all BS and Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

(I’m on my 2nd Heineken right now and its effects are starting to kick in. Go Holland! Beat the hosts please.)

That's the thing, I don't get worked up over any cricketer. Trundler takes any perceived attack on Pak players personally, even when there's none (I was mostly agreeing with him)and Coronis has just been a **** since I returned.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

That's the thing, I don't get worked up over any cricketer. Trundler takes any perceived attack on Pak players personally, even when there's none (I was mostly agreeing with him)and Coronis has just been a **** since I returned.

Some people have short fuses; some people have long fuses.

At the end of the day, it’s just a ****ing game.
Love your life…live your life, be happy.

Not a sad sack of ****

 

[Coronis]

Some people have short fuses; some people have long fuses.

At the end of the day, it’s just a ****ing game.
Love your life…live your life, be happy.

Not a sad sack of ****

Being happy is so much work though.

I’m very chill and non-confrontational irl, its nice to have an outlet where I can be passionate and argumentative.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Being happy is so much work though.

I’m very chill and non-confrontational irl, its nice to have an outlet where I can be passionate and argumentative.

Be mindful, that an argumentative approach is subjective.

 

[Coronis]

As usual with this community, compromise isn't welcome unless it's either way. If you average less at home, let's say because you've adjusted to your home conditions after growing up there, why should that be factored in to adjust your numbers. You're already averaging less at home, why further deduct from your overall average, in making a comp. It doesn't make any sense. That's not where he's loosing out in the comparison.

That's my point.

Because conditions matter? And you should be rated higher if you have to bat/bowl in an inherently more difficult situation?

 

[Slifer]

The irony for me, is if we say WI wickets are generally conducive to fast bowling, then in the same breath we should then give someone like a Lara more kudos for doing well on those spicy wickets, especially since he's done well at home vs every single last great fast bowling attack he's faced there. But we dont....hmmm

 

[trundler]

The irony for me, is if we say WI wickets are generally conducive to fast bowling, then in the same breath we should then give someone like a Lara more kudos for doing well on those spicy wickets, especially since he's done well at home vs every single last great fast bowling attack he's faced there. But we dont....hmmm

This is just victim complex. "People do X but not Y" is a conflation of two separate phenomenon 90% of the time. You don't know if it's the same people doing both of those things so you haven't unravelled any deep conspiracy or double standard.

 

[Slifer]

This is just victim complex. "People do X but not Y" is a conflation of two separate phenomenon 90% of the time. You don't know if it's the same people doing both of those things so you haven't unravelled any deep conspiracy or double standard.

Victim complex?? Friend, it's not that serious. I've been on here long enough to know that no one has ever said "oh yeah Lara faces pace friendly wickets at home so let's give him brownie points for his good home record vs pace. " And it's not a conflation of separation phenomenon; lara and Ambrose had careers that overlapped sufficiently. If Ambrose bowled on more pace friendly wickets in the Caribbean, then lara batted on said wickets. Unless you want to make the case that the wickets were dug up mid match.

I'm one who believes, that regardless of home conditions if you're familiar with such conditions you adapt. You don't get extra points for that. Therefore Pakistan bowlers like Wasim donot get extra points for doing well in Pakistan any more than Kallis for doing batting sell in RSA.

 

[trundler]

If Ambrose bowled on more pace friendly wickets in the Caribbean, then lara batted on said wickets. Unless you want to make the case that the wickets were dug up mid match.

Literally nobody will ever argue this. It wasn't about Ambrose to begin with anyway. I'm pretty sure Inzi for example is rightly regarded as an FTB.

Doing well on tough pitches is to a player's credit and doesn't make the pitches less tough just because said player did well on them. That's literally circular reasoning. There's a reason batsmen struggle in SA and bowlers struggle in Pakistan.

 

[ataraxia]

I'm one who believes, that regardless of home conditions if you're familiar with such conditions you adapt. You don't get extra points for that. Therefore Pakistan bowlers like Wasim donot get extra points for doing well in Pakistan any more than Kallis for doing batting sell in RSA.

Omg – so you don't adjust for the conditions a player plays in when rating them, because they should adapt?

 

[Slifer]

Omg – so you don't adjust for the conditions a player plays in when rating them, because they should adapt?

Did I say that? I said if a player has conditions that are supposedly more difficult for but those conditions are at home then it's more likely they'll adapt. Therefore they don't get extra points for adapting to said home conditions. Who should get extra points are the non-Pakistan fast bowlers who go there and do well. Because duh, those condition are completely foreign to them.

 

[Slifer]

Literally nobody will ever argue this. It wasn't about Ambrose to begin with anyway. I'm pretty sure Inzi for example is rightly regarded as an FTB.

Doing well on tough pitches is to a player's credit and doesn't make the pitches less tough just because said player did well on them. That's literally circular reasoning. There's a reason batsmen struggle in SA and bowlers struggle in Pakistan.

The thread is literally a comparison between Ambrose and Wasim. And not just here, but Pakistan home conditions have been brought up many times in these types of debates.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Did I say that? I said if a player has conditions that are supposedly more difficult for but those conditions are at home then it's more likely they'll adapt. Therefore they don't get extra points for adapting to said home conditions. Who should get extra points are the non-Pakistan fast bowlers who go there and do well. Because duh, those condition are completely foreign to them.

So according to you Ponting and Kallis should get equal credit for mastering their home conditions but Ponting should get more credit for his performances in SA than Kallis in Aus because SA is harder to bat in?