Post War Test Anonymous Listing Comparison thread

[shortpitched713]

I didn't send any votes, been busy travelling and stuff. But I like the lists for the most part.

I really dont rate cricketers aside from a top 5 or so, I tend to believe the tiers make so much more sense than any absolute rankings given the issues with cricket stats.

For me, in order, these are the top tier for each category.

Batsmen-

Bradman - Sobers - Lara - Sachin - Richards/Smith

Bowlers -

Marshall - Ambrose - McGrath - Murali - Hadlee

Allrounders -

Sobers - Imran - Miller

Few if any rate Steyn as highly as I do.

 

[shortpitched713]

ARs was trickiest for me to vote - whether looking at their overall career stats and value or how round they are.

I've discovered that by far my most heterodox opinion (even moreso than Philander being an ATG) is how I consider all-rounder value. For me, an all-rounder provides exponentially more value if they are a match-winning front-line bowler, and batting all-rounders really aren't doing quite that much. I have Sobers at 7 and Kallis at 9 in my all-rounders list. Everyone else voted Sobers 1. (I have Sobers as my number 2 batsman, so it's not that I don't rate him, just not as much as an all-rounder).

 

[shortpitched713]

Glad we could settle that McGrath vs Marshall debate.

Thanks for compiling shortpitched! Does seem a good reflection of CW consensus.

We "settled" Tendulkar vs Lara and Murali vs Warne, so I'll take that, I guess.

 

[shortpitched713]

Interesting to note how these compare to gftw and Line and Length's early 2022 voting results:

Bat	Anon List	gftw LL 2022
1​	Sobers	Sobers
2​	Tendulkar	Tendulkar
3​	Lara	V Richards
4​	V Richards	Lara
5​	S Smith	Hutton
6​	Hutton	Gavaskar
7​	Gavaskar	S Smith
8​	G Chappell	G Chappell
9​	Sangakkara	Ponting
10​	Kallis	G Pollock
11​	Ponting	Sangakkara
12​	Border	Border
13​	G Pollock	Kallis
14​	Barrington	S Waugh
15​	Weekes	Barrington
16​	Dravid	Miandad
17​	S Waugh	Dravid
18​	Miandad	Weekes
19​	Root	Compton
20​	Walcott	Younis Khan
21​	De Villiers	Walcott
22​	Compton	Nourse
23​	Harvey	De Villiers
24​	Younis Khan	Boycott
25​	Williamson	A Flower
26​	Boycott	Simpson
27​	Kohli	Kanhai
28​	B Richards	Harvey
29​	Nourse	Worrell
30​	Worrell	Root

Bowl	Anon List	gftw LL 2022
1​	Marshall	Marshall
2​	McGrath	McGrath
3​	Hadlee	Hadlee
4​	Murali	Murali
5​	Warne	Warne
6​	Ambrose	Ambrose
7​	Steyn	Steyn
8​	Wasim	Imran
9​	Imran	Lillee
10​	Lillee	Trueman
11​	Trueman	Wasim
12​	Donald	Donald
13​	Garner	Garner
14​	Lindwall	Lindwall
15​	Davidson	Holding
16​	Waqar	Waqar
17​	Holding	Davidson
18​	Laker	Laker

All-Round	Anon	gftw LL 2022
1​	Sobers	Sobers
2​	Imran	Imran
3​	Miller	Kallis
4​	Kallis	Miller
5​	Botham	Botham
6​	Hadlee	Shakib
7​	S Pollock	Kapil
8​	Kapil	Hadlee
9​	Shakib	S Pollock
10​	Jadeja	Jadeja

 

[honestbharani]

Few if any rate Steyn as highly as I do.

He would be at the top of the next tier.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Steyn is too low.

Would be higher on the list if I'd have voted.

 

[kyear2]

Wish I had made the time to submit, but was a busy day at the office.

The biggest shockers for me

1. Murali over Warne, yet Warne makes every CW XI over him

2. Wasim over Imran, 9th is lower than even I rate him, yet I get crucified everytime I mention his name.

3. Steyn below Murali, Warne and Ambrose even though he's beaten all of them in head to head polls.

A couple of observations, the numbers probably made it a bit daunting for more potential voters

12 votes are way to low for it to be seen as any kind of consensus and shouldn't be presented as any. 25 at a bare minimum and 50 preferable.

On more of a personal note / observation

Everytime I see votes like these with Hadlee so close to McGrath it makes me question having Pigeon ahead of him for my XI, though McGrath is definitely ahead on intangibles. Similarly with Smith and Richards where I IVA isn't quite the specialist I want in my cordon. But again intangibles keeps Viv ahead.

Thought Clive Lloyd would have found a place in a top 30, criminally underrated batsman and cricketer. The Big Cat faced more of less the same attacks that Viv did. Though I need to figure out what was going on when these guys visited NZ.

Wouldn't go as far as as to list an entire list, but like HB will list my top tiers plus for both.

nb. I don't list all rounders as much as all round crickets where I factor in all 3 facets of the game.

Bradman - Tendulkar - Sobers - Hobbs + Richards - Smith - Lara + Gavaskar

Marshall - McGrath - Hadlee - Steyn - Ambrose + Imran - Warne - Murali

Sobers - Kallis - Imran + Hadlee - Miller

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Wish I had made the time to submit, but was a busy day at the office.

The biggest shockers for me

1. Murali over Warne, yet Warne makes every CW XI over him

2. Wasim over Imran, 9th is lower than even I rate him, yet I get crucified everytime I mention his name.

3. Steyn below Murali, Warne and Ambrose even though he's beaten all of them in head to head polls.

A couple of observations, the numbers probably made it a bit daunting for more potential voters

12 votes are way to low for it to be seen as any kind of consensus and shouldn't be presented as any. 25 at a bare minimum and 50 preferable.

On more of a personal note / observation

Everytime I see votes like these with Hadlee so close to McGrath it makes me question having Pigeon ahead of him for my XI, though McGrath is definitely ahead on intangibles. Similarly with Smith and Richards where I IVA isn't quite the specialist I want in my cordon. But again intangibles keeps Viv ahead.

Thought Clive Lloyd would have found a place in a top 30, criminally underrated batsman and cricketer. The Big Cat faced more of less the same attacks that Viv did. Though I need to figure out what was going on when these guys visited NZ.

Wouldn't go as far as as to list an entire list, but like HB will list my top tiers plus for both.

nb. I don't list all rounders as much as all round crickets where I factor in all 3 facets of the game.

Bradman - Tendulkar - Sobers - Hobbs + Richards - Smith - Lara + Gavaskar

Marshall - McGrath - Hadlee - Steyn - Ambrose + Imran - Warne - Murali

Sobers - Kallis - Imran + Hadlee - Miller

Warne over Murali because overall he is a better cricketer.

Imran and Steyn because a lot of those who rate them high didn't vote for him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yup I'd have had Imran and Steyn way higher than their final rankings if I'd voted. Might've bumped them both up a spot or two.

 

[kyear2]

I've discovered that by far my most heterodox opinion (even moreso than Philander being an ATG) is how I consider all-rounder value. For me, an all-rounder provides exponentially more value if they are a match-winning front-line bowler, and batting all-rounders really aren't doing quite that much. I have Sobers at 7 and Kallis at 9 in my all-rounders list. Everyone else voted Sobers 1. (I have Sobers as my number 2 batsman, so it's not that I don't rate him, just not as much as an all-rounder).

This is idiotic. You have 6 all-rounders Ahead of Sobers? This is why I prefer when these votes are public so everyone can see who lodges these skewed votes that throws off the final results.

 

[honestbharani]

Murali over Warne, yet Warne makes every CW XI over him

I am not sure why it is such a shocker... I rate Murali > Warne, but for a balanced 11, I would rather have Warney batting 8 and also standing 3rd slip for my side.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Kinda sad that Bill O'Reilly didn't made it......

Vote was only for players who played primarily post war. I'm sure O'Reilly would have made it if eligible (I'd have voted him high).

 

[capt_Luffy]

Vote was only for players who played primarily post war. I'm sure O'Reilly would have made it if eligible (I'd have voted him high).

Yeah, I just remembered and deleted that message..... Had a brain fart moment right there when I saw I didn't vote for O Reilly as well

 

[Coronis]

Wish I had made the time to submit, but was a busy day at the office.

The biggest shockers for me

1. Murali over Warne, yet Warne makes every CW XI over him

2. Wasim over Imran, 9th is lower than even I rate him, yet I get crucified everytime I mention his name.

3. Steyn below Murali, Warne and Ambrose even though he's beaten all of them in head to head polls.

I don’t see why this would be a surprise. I thought the overall consensus was that they’re pretty much equals as bowlers, but Warne’s batting and slip fielding make him easily a better overall choice for an XI.

Thought you’d be more horrified that McGrath had equal votes to Marshall tbh.

 

[kyear2]

I don’t see why this would be a surprise. I thought the overall consensus was that they’re pretty much equals as bowlers, but Warne’s batting and slip fielding make him easily a better overall choice for an XI.

Thought you’d be more horrified that McGrath had equal votes to Marshall tbh.

Why? They are the two best bowlers of all time, I believe Maco is better but not going to fight anyone over it. Both of them likely make my top 5 of all time.

Additionally, this sample size was incredibly small.

 

[shortpitched713]

12 votes are way to low for it to be seen as any kind of consensus and shouldn't be presented as any. 25 at a bare minimum and 50 preferable.

Speak for yourself mate. I didn't specify a format for list submission, so there was a lot of hand work to clean up and compile the data. I wouldn't have wanted to do more than 14-16, as I couldn't complete that in a reasonable time frame during software deployments at work, or whatever.

We ended up with more or less the CW consensus anyway, with a few exceptions, so I don't really think there is that much gained with a systematic silent polling of like 4 times as many posters, whose entries I'd have to comb through.

 

[shortpitched713]

This is idiotic. You have 6 all-rounders Ahead of Sobers? This is why I prefer when these votes are public so everyone can see who lodges these skewed votes that throws off the final results.

I've given my reasoning that a match winning bowler as all-rounder adds more value in my mind than a batting all-rounder (even an ATG batsman). Go ahead and ad-hom as you want, but that's my rationale here, and I put Kallis at 9 for the same reason.

Ultimately it made no difference as Sobers was top of the tree anyway.

 

[kyear2]

I've given my reasoning that a match winning bowler as all-rounder adds more value in my mind than a batting all-rounder (even an ATG batsman). Go ahead and ad-hom as you want, but that's my rationale here, and I put Kallis at 9 for the same reason.

Ultimately it made no difference as Sobers was top of the tree anyway.

That's putting a blank slate regardless of quality, which doesn't seem rational. I would say bowlers had a greater base value over batsmen, that doesn't mean I put Shaun Pollock over Sachin. It's all relative.

 

[Coronis]

Why? They are the two best bowlers of all time, I believe Maco is better but not going to fight anyone over it. Both of them likely make my top 5 of all time.

Additionally, this sample size was incredibly small.

Because you’re always saying how big a gap Marshall has over everyone and how he’s a lock for an ATXI.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Dravid, ABD and Root are too high. Waugh, Williamson, and Barry Richards should be higher.