Ben Stokes vs AB de Villiers

[PlayerComparisons]

Two clutch matchwinners

 

[ma1978]

Stokes for the match winning. Rate Root over AB although it’s close and rate Stokes over Root for the impact

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Stokes for the match winning. Rate Root over AB although it’s close and rate Stokes over Root for the impact

What about Stokes vs Kohli?

 

[ma1978]

What about Stokes vs Kohli?

This is a hard one because I think (and it’s odd to say for a 34 year old who has a played a 100 tests) there is more of the Kohli story to be told. It was definitely Kohli, I’d say Stokes has edged ahead now but I can’t rule out a strong Kohli comeback on current form.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

This is a hard one because I think (and it’s odd to say for a 34 year old who has a played a 100 tests) there is more of the Kohli story to be told. It was definitely Kohli, I’d say Stokes has edged ahead now but I can’t rule out a strong Kohli comeback on current form.

Yeah Kohli looks likes he’s about to have a couple of really good years and will join the ATGs

 

[Majestic]

ABD.

Stokes is overrated, has done nothing in subcontinent.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

ABD.

Stokes is overrated, has done nothing in subcontinent.

He won a series in Pakistan as captain tho

 

[Majestic]

He won a series in Pakistan as captain tho

Doesn't matter. His performance was poor. Even Bavuma is doing great for SA in World Cup, he doesn't get the credit for this.

 

[BazBall21]

Stokes' bowling record in Asia is decent. Batting has generally been a disappointment. Ashwin has his number ofc and he let himself down in Pakistan last year. Big fan of his 85 in Bangladesh.

 

[Saket1209]

Stokes is no where close to AB in tests. AB performed well everywhere he played. Can't be said the same for stokes.

 

[GIMH]

Doesn't matter.

I think you’ll find it does

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yep this is better cricketer so captaincy is included. Stokes will probably end up as the best captain of all time once he wins a series in India and Australia

 

[Majestic]

I think you’ll find it does

How?

New Zealand and Australia also won series in Pakistan so don't know how is it really a big achievement given he didn't contributed enough.

 

[GIMH]

How?

His captaincy was the driving force behind the whitewash. There’s not another captain in we win that first test under.

 

[Majestic]

His captaincy was the driving force behind the whitewash. There’s not another captain in we win that first test under.

His captaincy was the driving force behind the whitewash. There’s not another captain in we win that first test under.

That Pakistan team is really weak at home and were beaten by Australia and New Zealand both. The strategy of playing aggressive cricket, aka, Bazball is great but not sure if I would take the credit away from their coach for that. It was the team execution that helped them win the game, especially batting performance from young Harry Brooks.

Had Stokes led it with an example, I would have given him credit. But that win credit doesn't go to him and neither was that win big enough to make up for his inept performance in Asian conditions over multiple tours except for that one performance in Bangladesh.

 

[BazBall21]

That Pakistan team is really weak at home and were beaten by Australia and New Zealand both. The strategy of playing aggressive cricket, aka, Bazball is great but not sure if I would take the credit away from their coach for that. It was the team execution that helped them win the game, especially batting performance from young Harry Brooks.

Had Stokes led it with an example, I would have given him credit. But that win credit doesn't go to him and neither was that win big enough to make up for his inept performance in Asian conditions over multiple tours except for that one performance in Bangladesh.

They weren't beaten by New Zealand and while I've never been an advocate for including captaincy in these debates, there is no way we win that first Test at least under Root. And to be honest, with the ball he did fine in Asia while he was an all rounder. Batting wise has been more of a disappointment. He's better against pace than spin.

 

[Majestic]

They weren't beaten by New Zealand and while I've never been an advocate for including captaincy in these debates, there is no way we win that first Test at least under Root. And to be honest, with the ball he did fine in Asia while he was an all rounder. Batting wise has been more of a disappointment. He's better against pace than spin.

The idea of playing aggressive cricket in tests was coined by Brendon McCullum, which is why they call it as 'Bazball'. More than Stokes, it was McCullum who influenced England to play this style of cricket because their younger batters were more enticed to fearless brand of cricket. All said and done, ultimately the execution had to come from England batters so they deserve the credit for it.

Root may not have been able to bat as freely as he did after leaving captaincy but that's his failure as captain rather than Stokes greatness because Stokes the captain has not helped Stokes the batsman enough.

The batting that Bairstow, Root and Brooks did under Stokes captaincy was phenomenal and the credit of that doesn't go to Stokes because otherwise Stokes the batsman would have batted superbly too.

 

[BazBall21]

The idea of playing aggressive cricket in tests was coined by Brendon McCullum, which is why they call it as 'Bazball'. More than Stokes, it was McCullum who influenced England to play this style of cricket because their younger batters were more enticed to fearless brand of cricket. All said and done, ultimately the execution had to come from England batters so they deserve the credit for it.

Root may not have been able to bat as freely as he did after leaving captaincy but that's his failure as captain rather than Stokes greatness because Stokes the captain has not helped Stokes the batsman enough.

The batting that Bairstow, Root and Brooks did under Stokes captaincy was phenomenal and the credit of that doesn't go to Stokes because otherwise Stokes the batsman would have batted superbly too.

Root was not a good captain. He was dealt a rough hand as other things besides test cricket were being prioritised at the time he was appointed but he was defensive, unimaginative and reactive. Could argue not the best at managing bowlers too. Giving McCullum all the credit for Stokes' live on-field captaincy is similar to giving Bayliss all the credit for Morgan's captaincy. You might say Morgan is a better captain than Stokes, but the principle remains. McCullum's proposal to attack and play with freedom etc was probably a turning point, but I think suggesting he should take all the credit when Stokes produces results with unorthodox planning live on the field is simplistic analysis.

I agree that one of the reasons why the Silverwood way didn't work is England's batting resources favour attacking batting rather than atrritional. Succeeding with defensive batting against deep bowling attacks is very difficult too. England came up against them a lot in 2021. And also agree that captaincy shouldn't detract from Stokes' poor batting returns in Pakistan and New Zealand last year. His away record isn't bad but could use some improvement and last winter was a missed opportunity in that respect.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Stokes needs to do well as captain in India and Australia since those are the most important series. Pakistan team he beat was pretty weak although a great achievement

 

[GIMH]

The idea of playing aggressive cricket in tests was coined by Brendon McCullum, which is why they call it as 'Bazball'. More than Stokes, it was McCullum who influenced England to play this style of cricket because their younger batters were more enticed to fearless brand of cricket. All said and done, ultimately the execution had to come from England batters so they deserve the credit for it.

Root may not have been able to bat as freely as he did after leaving captaincy but that's his failure as captain rather than Stokes greatness because Stokes the captain has not helped Stokes the batsman enough.

The batting that Bairstow, Root and Brooks did under Stokes captaincy was phenomenal and the credit of that doesn't go to Stokes because otherwise Stokes the batsman would have batted superbly too.

How many other captains declare when Stokes did in that first Test?

People are ready to jump in on him for Edgbaston. Has to work both ways.